Post by halfbreedqueen on Aug 1, 2007 23:52:57 GMT -5
I was thinking about the season finale and it actually brought up something that I think relates to the idea of "why do some people decide to do good?"
Vic is corrupt, but only to himself. In that last episode he refuses to get in the pocket of Cruz (who Aceveda was getting in with) even though it offers him great rewards. He's also refused to be put into someone else's pocket and to do things that he personally doesn't see a purpose to. Although part of it is that he needs power, it's also that Vic has his own sense of right and wrong, and although his moral beliefs are shakey he follows a moral code within himself. that's what makes him a villain and a hero. he's not a coward and all his evil actions are, in his mind, for a greater good. in a sense he follows his code as strongly as a religious person might follow the bible, etc.
I don't know how that relates to the 5th book but the idea of justice is really fascinating. we were talking about what makes a person good. but what is good... i.e. who decides what is right and wrong? we have religion and law, things passed down over generations that are considered true and just. but times change, 200 years ago most considered slavery to be a necessity and not immoral. why is someone like Vic, who makes his own moral code but does follow it, wrong in a sense?
some of it has to do with selflessness and selfishness, that's a very important part. but even in the case of Vic, most of his actions are selfless. he fucked up with his family but he does genuinely care about him, and the corruption and money he has taken have not really been used for any monetary rewards... he works long hours, has money problems, doesn't have a mansion or a fancy car or any of the other obvious rewards of corruption.
so yeah, I think there is that idea of a villain and a hero. I think ultimately one needs a sense of right and wrong that goes beyond themself, because a single person can be corrupted (what often happens with dictators, especially ones that may start out wanting to do right but who are then corrupted by power), but if you somehow attach yourself to something bigger than yourself, then as long as that thing isn't corrupted you have something to fall back on. this is probably what is so appealing about religion, and why when religious leaders manipulate religion so much bad shit goes down.
and yeah, that relates back to the shield. i think the s6 finale showed how Vic is a villain and hero in yet another light, as we saw in the most clear form yet how as corrupt as his actions may seem (and for all the evil he HAS done), that he will never lower himself to do someone else's evil... both for reasons of power (Vic is the subordinate type) but also because he has a sense of morals that he believes in and tries to follow. Vic of course does not see himself as evil, nor his actions as such (like when he killed Terry which in his mind was for a greater good and for the protection of the strike team, his "family.) I think we sometimes see Vic question this though, where he realizes his possibility for corruption and where he second guesses his actions, even if for a moment, and I think this will come to a head in the final season.
this also separates him from Shane, since Shane's action are almost always solely selfish, and although when things get bad he really does see the wrong he has done, when he finds a way out he doesn't learn his lesson. yet even in this finale episode we begin to see a hint of the selfishness fade as the enormity of his mistakes weighs down on him. Shane trying to protect Vic's family is genuine, and he truly would do anything to keep Vic and the ones he loves from being harmed. but is it too late for his redemption, and will he ever really learn from this (deep down is he just selfish, which is what keeps him from falling back in the hole after climbing out?)
And, like with Iraq where soldiers just "follow orders" when they commit atrocities (or the Nazis, etc.), Vic would never do that. he would never put himself in the pocket of another to do their evils for the power of something greater than himself. in part this is selfish, but his need for control also shows that he will not do something he considers dead wrong. he could never kill people he considers innocent, he could never torture a civilian in war or do what in his mind would be an abuse of power. he would rather die fighting than follow the path of an ideology he did not agree with. this is why Vic would, say, never have been a Nazi but instead been one of the ones to flee, or house Jews. There are parts of a hero inside of him, and parts of a villain (as to a point he could be shaped into a Hitler like figure if he believed there was purpose to the genocide, which is how some dictators become slowly twisted, they fall down that hole slowly until they are consumed by it. again, though, Vic is not an idiot and in The Shield we even see him question sometimes if he has fallen in. he knows that there is a dark abyss that he can fall, where good intentions lead to Hell, though this is not a thought that dominates his mind but rather one that whisks through it from occasion to occasion.)
Vic is corrupt, but only to himself. In that last episode he refuses to get in the pocket of Cruz (who Aceveda was getting in with) even though it offers him great rewards. He's also refused to be put into someone else's pocket and to do things that he personally doesn't see a purpose to. Although part of it is that he needs power, it's also that Vic has his own sense of right and wrong, and although his moral beliefs are shakey he follows a moral code within himself. that's what makes him a villain and a hero. he's not a coward and all his evil actions are, in his mind, for a greater good. in a sense he follows his code as strongly as a religious person might follow the bible, etc.
I don't know how that relates to the 5th book but the idea of justice is really fascinating. we were talking about what makes a person good. but what is good... i.e. who decides what is right and wrong? we have religion and law, things passed down over generations that are considered true and just. but times change, 200 years ago most considered slavery to be a necessity and not immoral. why is someone like Vic, who makes his own moral code but does follow it, wrong in a sense?
some of it has to do with selflessness and selfishness, that's a very important part. but even in the case of Vic, most of his actions are selfless. he fucked up with his family but he does genuinely care about him, and the corruption and money he has taken have not really been used for any monetary rewards... he works long hours, has money problems, doesn't have a mansion or a fancy car or any of the other obvious rewards of corruption.
so yeah, I think there is that idea of a villain and a hero. I think ultimately one needs a sense of right and wrong that goes beyond themself, because a single person can be corrupted (what often happens with dictators, especially ones that may start out wanting to do right but who are then corrupted by power), but if you somehow attach yourself to something bigger than yourself, then as long as that thing isn't corrupted you have something to fall back on. this is probably what is so appealing about religion, and why when religious leaders manipulate religion so much bad shit goes down.
and yeah, that relates back to the shield. i think the s6 finale showed how Vic is a villain and hero in yet another light, as we saw in the most clear form yet how as corrupt as his actions may seem (and for all the evil he HAS done), that he will never lower himself to do someone else's evil... both for reasons of power (Vic is the subordinate type) but also because he has a sense of morals that he believes in and tries to follow. Vic of course does not see himself as evil, nor his actions as such (like when he killed Terry which in his mind was for a greater good and for the protection of the strike team, his "family.) I think we sometimes see Vic question this though, where he realizes his possibility for corruption and where he second guesses his actions, even if for a moment, and I think this will come to a head in the final season.
this also separates him from Shane, since Shane's action are almost always solely selfish, and although when things get bad he really does see the wrong he has done, when he finds a way out he doesn't learn his lesson. yet even in this finale episode we begin to see a hint of the selfishness fade as the enormity of his mistakes weighs down on him. Shane trying to protect Vic's family is genuine, and he truly would do anything to keep Vic and the ones he loves from being harmed. but is it too late for his redemption, and will he ever really learn from this (deep down is he just selfish, which is what keeps him from falling back in the hole after climbing out?)
And, like with Iraq where soldiers just "follow orders" when they commit atrocities (or the Nazis, etc.), Vic would never do that. he would never put himself in the pocket of another to do their evils for the power of something greater than himself. in part this is selfish, but his need for control also shows that he will not do something he considers dead wrong. he could never kill people he considers innocent, he could never torture a civilian in war or do what in his mind would be an abuse of power. he would rather die fighting than follow the path of an ideology he did not agree with. this is why Vic would, say, never have been a Nazi but instead been one of the ones to flee, or house Jews. There are parts of a hero inside of him, and parts of a villain (as to a point he could be shaped into a Hitler like figure if he believed there was purpose to the genocide, which is how some dictators become slowly twisted, they fall down that hole slowly until they are consumed by it. again, though, Vic is not an idiot and in The Shield we even see him question sometimes if he has fallen in. he knows that there is a dark abyss that he can fall, where good intentions lead to Hell, though this is not a thought that dominates his mind but rather one that whisks through it from occasion to occasion.)