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Post by badcop187 on Feb 15, 2006 14:22:32 GMT -5
Last nights ep sparked a question for me? Is Vic really the "bad"guy in this series? I just want your opinions on how you view Mackey. Is he truly an evil man? Does the good he does outway the bad(killing terry)? How do you want the series to end? Vic getting away, or going down for the wrong he has done? Do you root for VIc every week, or do you hate him and wish he got caught. Obviously a morale question. I hate corrupt cops, but find myself rooting for the ST everyweek. Alot of times he bends the rules to end a gang war, get drugs off the streets, but also has commited murder, covered up murder for gang bangers(remember the cargo box?) I think most of like Vic, but is he really the "bad guy" in all of this? ??
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Post by striketeamwashere on Feb 15, 2006 19:35:42 GMT -5
Thats a tough question. Vic is a grey area boy as opposed to just black and white. Most of the time he is in the grey area of what is considered right and wrong but there are the times he doesnt just put a foot into the black area but takes a giant leap into it (ie Terry. and the whole covering up for Shane and Mara when they sent Tevon throught the windshield)
Most of the times when he goes into the black are of what would be considered "wrong" it is usually to someone who pretty much deserves it of lives their life in the black area.(ie robbing the money train, and killing Margos)
I think Vic is the "good guy" who does the "bad guy" things.
For most of the things he does it comes down to the question Does the end justify the means?
Thats all....if any of it is confusing let me know and ill try to re-write it so it makes more sense.
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Post by badcop187 on Feb 15, 2006 22:31:40 GMT -5
I think the whole Question I posed was confusing, and that was the point? Good vs evil and our perceptions if it is ok.
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Post by chemikalman on Feb 15, 2006 23:57:29 GMT -5
I think the whole Question I posed was confusing, and that was the point? Good vs evil and our perceptions if it is ok. Like Kavenaugh said in this week's episode "Vic is a survivor ... he'll do whatever it takes to protect himself, his team and his family." Whatever it takes covers "good, bad and ugly" whenever it's required and in whatever proportion is required, doesn't it? I root for Vic every week and, in the end, I want him to get away with everything and end up on top.
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Post by dtpollitt on Feb 16, 2006 3:27:15 GMT -5
Vic has really gone off the "straight and narrow" only a few real times...
First episode, killing Terry and beating the shit outta the kiddie porn guy, for instance. Most of the time it's roughing up a few bad guys to get to the heart of the problem, the real thug leader, etc. Although his methods are a bit unorthodox and straddle the law, he rarely does something just for the f*** of it.
The Strike Team was originally a rogue team assigned to gangs and to get results. They have done that and more. If Vic was truly bad he wouldn't care about his autistic kids, wife, or show as much passion and devotion for the Barn and his team as he obviously does.
I want Vic going down in a fury of bullets, fighting to beat the bad guy, in one final and furious fight. I'll cry, I know I will.
--Dan
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Post by jray on Feb 16, 2006 3:50:53 GMT -5
Yeah...IF vic goes down...I'm gonna' need a box of kleenex. It's really hard to say that Vic is a "bad" person...and it's just as hard to say he's "good." A lot of the good he's done has involved a lot of bad. Example, when he locked the two rappers in the trailer to fight to the death. That SHOULD NOT have happened. Terry is obvious. I think in the end, Vic is a good person with a fatal flaw: He's willing to go for blood if that's what it takes to make his world a safer place.
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mdrn
"If she wants to play lumberjack she needs to handle her end of the log". Harry Callahan
Posts: 22
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Post by mdrn on Feb 16, 2006 11:47:31 GMT -5
vic trys to do the BEST thing in a BAD situation.
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Post by jimmycracker on Feb 16, 2006 18:05:52 GMT -5
I want him to go down, just 'cause it would end the series perfectly.
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Post by striketeamwashere on Feb 16, 2006 19:40:10 GMT -5
I want him to go down, just 'cause it would end the series perfectly. I would disagree with that. I think the best way to end it would be them at the overlook point from season 3 when the ST had their argument. Just looking over the city happy to know that they beat IAD again.
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Post by jray on Feb 17, 2006 2:34:55 GMT -5
I kinda' like that idea striketeam. It would be about the happiest ending the show could hope for.
But I think Vic will have to fall at some point. Maybe that means he gets forced into retirement...maybe he goes to jail. But like the original tragedy of Oedipus, Vic will undoubtedly fall.
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Post by badcop187 on Feb 17, 2006 17:50:11 GMT -5
How about this, the entire ST takes a fall except for VIC. Maybe some go to jail, maybe some die in a gunfight. But to see Vic make it out standing ontop of that hill. A little tragic, but we get to see Vic make it out. Whether thats avoiding Jail or retirement, on his own terms.
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Post by dtpollitt on Feb 17, 2006 22:08:14 GMT -5
I just think that somehow, Vic and/or the Strike Team going down is the best possible closing scenario. Don't you think that's why the writers are continuing, non-stop, to write "Part 2" of Season 5???
--Dan
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Post by badcop187 on Feb 17, 2006 22:48:09 GMT -5
I just think that somehow, Vic and/or the Strike Team going down is the best possible closing scenario. Don't you think that's why the writers are continuing, non-stop, to write "Part 2" of Season 5??? --Dan Not at all! I don't think they plan on bringing the ST down. If they were why wouldn't Kav do it? - spoiler removed by E -
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Post by detectivescrotes on Feb 19, 2006 2:02:12 GMT -5
I'll admit, he doesn't always do the 100% right thing. I know killing Terry ws wrong, but if he didn't kill him, then none of the good things he did post episode one would've happened.
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Post by badcop187 on Mar 5, 2006 10:12:38 GMT -5
I just saw a mini promo of FX interviewing W goggins and M Chicklis. Chicky refers to season 1 the point of his "original sin".
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Post by Dead Armenian on Mar 5, 2006 14:49:45 GMT -5
I think that badcop's original question is the whole reason I'm hooked on the show. Vic is clearly a good man (capable of great love, loyalty, self-sacrifice and a desire to protect the innocent), but he also plays the game of, "Hey, if I'm gonna put up with all the crap, I can compromise and enjoy a few perks, too."
That's really the human moral dilema, as I see it. It is impossible not to cheer for him, yet some of his compromises are so monstrous (Terry, shaking down drug dealers while keeping them in business, the money train) that it isn't possible to just say, "Aw, it's OK. It's just Vic."
It is a great show because it manages to stay in these gray areas that are very true to life. The best folks have vices and flaws, and even wretchedly bad folks can show flashes of goodness (why I loved "OZ" on HBO).
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Post by stovetop on Mar 7, 2006 19:08:06 GMT -5
I also disagree that sending them all to jail would make a horrible ending for the series.
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Post by BringBackTavon on May 5, 2006 18:28:42 GMT -5
I think Kavanaugh said it best to Aceveda in the second episode of the fifth season..."You were after a guy who was evil 100% of the time. I think Mackey is only bad 2 or 3% of the time and good the other 98%. We have a CI right next to him and when he drifts to that 2% we're going to nail him."
That is the most truth spoken about Vic. Sure he has done evil things but more often than not it is for the case of good. If you look at the show we should be empathising with Kavanaugh as the good guy, but we think he is the bad guy. He is basically the antivillian to Vics antihero...
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Post by lemgirl on Aug 18, 2006 10:43:29 GMT -5
The whole strike team going down would be the best possible closing scenario. I'm not sure about jail time but they should lose their jobs. I do think Vic should pay for killing Terry. After all he is a cop killer even if Terry was a rat.
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Post by tsarina on Sept 3, 2006 9:53:02 GMT -5
Vic is a sociopath. Sociopaths have morals; the same morals as everyone has. Their value system is different, that's all. Anyone who doesn't think Vic is a bad guy, put yourself in the place of someone he wants something from. Give me a little bit to do some back up reading in my abnormal psych books, and I'll actually provide a diagnosis for Vic as a sociopath point by point on the profile. You see, not all sociopaths are killers and not all killers are sociopaths. Some sociopaths are killers. And Vic is a killer.
On the other hand, the sum total of a person is not weighed by the single worst thing they've ever done, nor the best. Shouldn't be anyway. We are all made up of both.
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