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Post by murt1987 on Apr 7, 2007 10:15:35 GMT -5
Watched it last night Finally I can chat with ye guys about each episode as it happens Anyway, I gave this a solid B+ . Its definitely one of the better season openers I've seen on TS. The struggle of fending off Kavanaugh and looking for Guardo at the same time for Vic is gonna be hell for him. I just cant see him getting out of this situation, not now anyway. I loved pretty much everything about the epsiode, Dutch was great as usual and was Shane and I have to commend how the episode writers made it feel like it was a proper season opener even with the special mini episode on BudTV a few weeks ago. What I didn't like was the ending. Kavanaugh going through Vics house and planting evidence. I know what they are trying to do making comparisons to himself and Vic but it just feels too sudden. I understand Forrest Whitaker is only here for 2 episodes (i think) but if it was left to maybe episode 5, then it might be a little more believable. Still, Im delighted its back and a great episode
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Post by chemikalman on Apr 7, 2007 13:00:40 GMT -5
I am most curious on how Vic is going to get out of being framed. How Is he going to prove Kav planted all that stuff and that bitch emolia is lying? I'm late to posting on this ep and only got thru the 1st 2 pages of posts. Tsarina, as far as why Dutch went to the house in the last scene, maybe someone already answered this but it was said just as they approached the place that INS came up that address for the El Salvadoran's cousins. Now why they were butchered, that remains to be seen. That scene was so over-the-top gross that all Dutch could say was his famous earlier line "you gotta be shitting me!" Badcop, Kav's downfall has to come in ep 6-02 because I think he's only in the 1st two eps. Dutch is gonna save Vic by checking out the camera on the freeway entrance and finding out Kav was lying about meeting Emolia near there. That will put things into motion for finding out that Kav planted the evidence in Vic's place. He probably made a mistake and left something behind. He's an IAD cop but Dutchboy is the detective and Dutchboy will bring him down somehow, I think. I did like Emolia's line to Kav about aren't you supposed to catch cops who do things like lie and coverup?
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Post by chemikalman on Apr 7, 2007 15:13:58 GMT -5
To quote Glen Mazzara, writer/producer (forgive me for not searching out the link; I feel lazy): "All babies look like Vic Mackey, but this one does for a reason." I was about to point this out but thought I'd keep reading and see if someone would. I figured E would be the one--I'm glad someone is paying attention to what the writers have told us.
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Post by aussieangel on Apr 7, 2007 20:14:15 GMT -5
Did anyone notice that Dutchboy kinda graduated to Dutchman?
I've watched the episode twice it was that good.
Kav's ass is grass for sure, Dutch is onto him. Vic sure is gonna be pissed when he finds out.
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Post by ISaidWhoaDangIt on Apr 7, 2007 20:16:32 GMT -5
I intend on watching it tomorrow again when it comes on FX at night.
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Post by chemikalman on Apr 8, 2007 0:46:06 GMT -5
I intend on watching it tomorrow again when it comes on FX at night. Say, that's right ... I forgot that they used to rebroadcast on Sun. night. So they're still doing it? Cool.
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Post by jwc53531 on Apr 9, 2007 10:23:37 GMT -5
after watching it yet again I noticed two things I missed - in their confrontation towards the end of the episode Kav tells Vic there are 'unis' at his house - he does this so Vic will go somewhere else thus allowing Kav access to Vic's pad in order to plant the 'evidence' - I imagine this might have been obvious to others but I just caught it - it does give some evidence to Kav's level of premeditation - the other thing I caught was when the ST and SWAT are entering the methadone clinic - everyone is running into the building in various levels of excitment - all except Shane - he's just sort of walking in, like he's in a daze - it's only a couple of seconds long but based on what comes later it's a great piece of work by Walton - his mannerism and his look are perfect - oh, and one other thing - when Corrine goes to Danny's place - she uses the word 'thing' twice - she says something about 'this thing on your doorstep' referring to the baggage associated with any of Vic's relationships - but then she also refers to Danny's baby as a 'thing' - Danny thinks Corrine is referring to the baby only - after watching that scene again I think Corrine is not talking about the baby specifically but is again referring to the whole of the situation - just my opinion
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Post by ShootFirst on Apr 10, 2007 0:04:15 GMT -5
I'm just now getting to posting on the premiere after a hell of a past week and a half I'd rather forget but here goes. The last part of the tape cut off and I think I missed about the last 3 minutes or so.
The Danny/Corrine confrontation was some good work. This could play out well as long as it's not overdone. It will be interesting to see how Vic's involvement with his new child works out. On the same subject....since C. Dent was actually pregnant during S5, is the baby in the new season is her actual child?
The talk of Walton's work in this one is well deserved. The writers are really doing some great stuff with him. It seemed that when he poured the gas all over himself that he really didn't care if he got set on fire. This coupled with the scene in his truck with his Beretta just sets the stage for his death wish. When he goes out, he'll go out in flames.
The Vic/Kav stuff is great but seemed inevitable. It just now seems to be a matter of how cool it's gonna be when he goes down. Still wonderful material. His interaction with Aceveda is a good backdrop I think with his search for Lem's killer. Like Kav, David will meet with his demise in due time.
Glad to see Tina is coming around. She very well could have been a bore but it seems like her character will develop nicely. Dutch is still Dutch and I'm a fan of his. Very interested to see how things play out with Tina and his other stuff.
Billings' character didn't surprise me. It is ok as far as a filler but I don't think I would miss him terribly. Smart but lazy.
Never been a fan of Claudette being Captain. Her struggles seem to provide the best interest for her IMO. She just doesn't seem to have the confidence of her people. Something I think is essential for a Police Dept.
I'm sure I'll chime in more with my twisted mind soon enough. Off to the range.
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Post by SMOKE-DOG on Apr 10, 2007 0:09:25 GMT -5
At a quarter past midnight?
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Post by I Adore Ronnie on Apr 10, 2007 0:20:57 GMT -5
Nothing insightful, I just love the picture hanging in Vic's place
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Post by loveronnie on Apr 10, 2007 7:30:45 GMT -5
I love this pic! Does anyone can make a wall for me with this pic? thank so much!
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Post by further on Apr 10, 2007 13:38:06 GMT -5
i think the photo cover of the shield s 6th season in which it appears vic handcuffed with dead lems wrist, is more than suggestive.only the view of this image make my spine shiver for what i m about to experience in the next weeks to follow.life is made by little things.in my life one of these is the shield series.thanx shawn ryan for making my little-thing-life bigger during this period. www.fxnetworks.com/shows/originals/the_shield/main.html
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Post by dtpollitt on Apr 10, 2007 20:57:14 GMT -5
Well, it's 10 minutes til episode two starts and I still have not posted for episode one...
I was highly disappointed in the premiere. If it was the middle-of-the-season episode my expectations would not have been as high, but still. It felt very disorganized and out of focus; which in retrospect is how I would feel inside the Barn after Lem's killing, but the episode was spotty, at best. I took notes today during my second viewing...
--We really must respect Kavanaugh's brilliant mind in how swiftly he figured out Vic's (Shane's) motive. I posted last year about how Kavanaugh is the single most defining character in the history of THE SHIELD and I will copy and paste it after this post. Kavanaugh's transgression from his initial goal to now his own personal vendetta is mind blowing, to say the least. Dutch's perspective quite possibly is the best: how could Kavanaugh lie about Vic but fail to for his own ex-wife?
--QUOTES:
(1) "I got leftovers older than you." "Yeah, but not as tasty." (2) We'll try to fill the void." (3) You think I'm a cop killer? You're a cop." (4) "Six-paw-thirty-two here..." (5) "Kevlar's my friend."
--I think everyone is wrong about Goggins fantastic acting this episode; sure, he was great, but the real hero this episode was Benito Martinez. The sole scene he is in (excluding TV) with Vic in the bathroom was simply fantastic...I truly believed his love/hate for Vic and how he simply tried to piggyback and weasel his way out of a rocky situation by favoring Kavanaugh.
--A Classic Shield Moment that will go down in history - faint, less than ten seconds, and brilliant - Vendrell walking away when Wyms tells the Strike Team how Lem's deal really went down. Did you heart break? Mine did. Imagine if you were Shane.
--WAS THIS THE FIRST TIME WE HAVE SAT IN THE PEWS ON THE SECOND FLOOR?? WOW THAT EXCITED ME!!
--Why is that porno guy familiar to me? What else has he been in?
--"Certain things are in motion." What does this mean?
-What's Danny's kid's name?
Final two thoughts, both Dutch related:
(1) Can Dutch be thought of one of the greatest television detectives of all time? Frank Pembelton from HOMICIDE: LIFE ON THE STREET and Jimmy McNulty from THE WIRE are the only two, in my opinion, that come remotely close in emotional complexity; is the Dutchman in this category, whomever you choose to place in it with him??
(2) Is this trailer-trash case Dutch's penultimate case? I always have been spoiler-free but would it not be amazing if Dutch spent the next ten or twelve episodes engrossing himself in a landmark, life-serving case? I always have wanted the best for Dutch, and what a way to go out. Just a thought if I was a writer.
Overall, I gave this episode a C. I wanted more.
Dan
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Post by dtpollitt on Apr 10, 2007 20:58:47 GMT -5
Here is the commentary I suggested for Whitaker's Kavanaugh last summer. Yeah, I'm jerking my own chain, but I like it - hell, I wrote it.
Another Shield site asked if they could post this discussion, here's the link to it. Hopefully admin won't care.
www.shieldlexicon.com/jackpot.html
Updated July 10, 2006 6:00 AM Emmy Snub Disection by Dan (dtpollitt of The Shield Rap)
When it comes to this season's award shows the only people I found especially worthy of Emmys this year were Forest Whitaker (Jon Kavanaugh), Walton Goggins (Shane Vendrell), and Kenny Johnson (Curtis Lemansky). Actually, I thought David Marciano (Steve Billings) was the best, but he's not going to get a nod for such a small role, I believe.
So, let's dissect the roles:
(1) I originally thought CCH Pounder (Claudette Wyms) would be the forerunner for such an Emmy nod, but I didn't really care for her this season. I think her story suffered but not in a bad way...more if a natural transgression to her role as captain. Gotta fall down before you can get back up, and her disease and lack of storyline worked for me, just not for voters or in being able to create magic out of a thin story. Make sense?? Knock Pounder of the list.
(2) I don't know if Shane/Lem's roles were extensive enough to give them a supporting actor nod...Although integral to the show (obviously), I get the feeling outside of hardcore TV viewers and Shield fans, no one really understands the severe implications of Shane and Lem during this season...and how great a job the respective actors did in creating a tearjerker ending of brotherly love & hate. Goggins didn't have nearly as much material to work with as Johnson did...and although many on TSR will disagree, I thoroughly enjoyed each and every gritty scene in the hotel room with Kavanaugh and Lem, Lem seen physically and emotionally naked, etc. Knock Goggins off, although this 5B/6/THIS IS PISSING ME OFF season, I believe, will truly give Goggins the career launch he and every fantastic actor deserves. I cried with Goggins and died with Johnson this season. Godspeed in a great season for Goggins.
(3) Whitaker...was Vic's but mainly Lem's yang to their yings. Forget about Chik for a second (I know, I know, hard to do considering he is the driving force behind the fury and love that is "The Shield"). Back to Kavanaugh and Lem's push & pull, right & wrong, love & hate, brothers & blood fight this season. Neither would have truly shone without the other...
...BUT I ask myself this question in debating who was the better actor this season: "At the end of the season, did I hate Kavanaugh more or love Lem more?" My love for Lem grew exponentially, most prevalent during the the explosion of Kavanaugh-Smoked-Of Mice And Lem-Post Partum four episode finale. HOWEVER, I have - as have most of you - loved Lem from day one. The heart, soul, voice of reason, gentle giant.
Kavanaugh, on the other hand, came to us in Extraction, 5x01, and was VERY slowly (some on TSR would say too slowly) and methodically developed. Warmed at a low heat, almost dull and unrefined, for five episodes...then Whitaker bared his teeth and shouted with a viciousness and ferocity never before seen in a Shield character. Whitaker gave us clues into Kavanaugh's humanistic features - clumsy and dopey, completely and utterly alone, fearful and regretful of his ex-wife's relationship, and above all, craving for someone to accept, welcome, and respect him. The sole vice Whitaker's Kavanaugh had was the Strike Team - his glory, finale, initiation into the Boys' Club. And this is why I choose Whitaker's Kavanaugh over Johnson's Lemansky as the most definitive character development in Season 5. I truly longed to learn more about this man, his M.O., his underlying reasoning, his social-unacceptability, why this man was so singularly driven on bringing down the team and family we love the most. I hate Kavanaugh more than any single character on "The Shield"...but want to share some beers get to know him first.
Whitaker's Kavanaugh was and is the single most defining character study in the history of "The Shield" (up to this point)...and he got screwed by the Emmys. Thanks, pompus dicks.
Dan
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Post by ShootFirst on Apr 11, 2007 0:51:06 GMT -5
At a quarter past midnight? Been a hell of a couple weeks. I did get to go recently but no night shooting.
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Post by ShootFirst on Apr 11, 2007 0:58:04 GMT -5
Here is the commentary I suggested for Whitaker's Kavanaugh last summer. Yeah, I'm jerking my own chain, but I like it - hell, I wrote it.
Another Shield site asked if they could post this discussion, here's the link to it. Hopefully admin won't care.
www.shieldlexicon.com/jackpot.html
Updated July 10, 2006 6:00 AM Emmy Snub Disection by Dan (dtpollitt of The Shield Rap)
When it comes to this season's award shows the only people I found especially worthy of Emmys this year were Forest Whitaker (Jon Kavanaugh), Walton Goggins (Shane Vendrell), and Kenny Johnson (Curtis Lemansky). Actually, I thought David Marciano (Steve Billings) was the best, but he's not going to get a nod for such a small role, I believe.
So, let's dissect the roles:
(1) I originally thought CCH Pounder (Claudette Wyms) would be the forerunner for such an Emmy nod, but I didn't really care for her this season. I think her story suffered but not in a bad way...more if a natural transgression to her role as captain. Gotta fall down before you can get back up, and her disease and lack of storyline worked for me, just not for voters or in being able to create magic out of a thin story. Make sense?? Knock Pounder of the list.
(2) I don't know if Shane/Lem's roles were extensive enough to give them a supporting actor nod...Although integral to the show (obviously), I get the feeling outside of hardcore TV viewers and Shield fans, no one really understands the severe implications of Shane and Lem during this season...and how great a job the respective actors did in creating a tearjerker ending of brotherly love & hate. Goggins didn't have nearly as much material to work with as Johnson did...and although many on TSR will disagree, I thoroughly enjoyed each and every gritty scene in the hotel room with Kavanaugh and Lem, Lem seen physically and emotionally naked, etc. Knock Goggins off, although this 5B/6/THIS IS PISSING ME OFF season, I believe, will truly give Goggins the career launch he and every fantastic actor deserves. I cried with Goggins and died with Johnson this season. Godspeed in a great season for Goggins.
(3) Whitaker...was Vic's but mainly Lem's yang to their yings. Forget about Chik for a second (I know, I know, hard to do considering he is the driving force behind the fury and love that is "The Shield"). Back to Kavanaugh and Lem's push & pull, right & wrong, love & hate, brothers & blood fight this season. Neither would have truly shone without the other...
...BUT I ask myself this question in debating who was the better actor this season: "At the end of the season, did I hate Kavanaugh more or love Lem more?" My love for Lem grew exponentially, most prevalent during the the explosion of Kavanaugh-Smoked-Of Mice And Lem-Post Partum four episode finale. HOWEVER, I have - as have most of you - loved Lem from day one. The heart, soul, voice of reason, gentle giant.
Kavanaugh, on the other hand, came to us in Extraction, 5x01, and was VERY slowly (some on TSR would say too slowly) and methodically developed. Warmed at a low heat, almost dull and unrefined, for five episodes...then Whitaker bared his teeth and shouted with a viciousness and ferocity never before seen in a Shield character. Whitaker gave us clues into Kavanaugh's humanistic features - clumsy and dopey, completely and utterly alone, fearful and regretful of his ex-wife's relationship, and above all, craving for someone to accept, welcome, and respect him. The sole vice Whitaker's Kavanaugh had was the Strike Team - his glory, finale, initiation into the Boys' Club. And this is why I choose Whitaker's Kavanaugh over Johnson's Lemansky as the most definitive character development in Season 5. I truly longed to learn more about this man, his M.O., his underlying reasoning, his social-unacceptability, why this man was so singularly driven on bringing down the team and family we love the most. I hate Kavanaugh more than any single character on "The Shield"...but want to share some beers get to know him first.
Whitaker's Kavanaugh was and is the single most defining character study in the history of "The Shield" (up to this point)...and he got screwed by the Emmys. Thanks, pompus dicks.
Dan
Nice post Dan! You bring up some really good points and I definitely see your side when talking of hating Kav more or loving Lem more. It was, as you stated, the carefulness of his character's development that brought it to life. The only reason I would have gone on the Lem side of the argument was his integral part of the ST and the show for 5 seasons and the role he played. If Whitaker had not played his role as well as he did, Kenny's role, nor a lot of the cast's, would have developed as they did. All of the roles were intertwined with great precision
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Post by Nick Mills on Apr 11, 2007 14:26:10 GMT -5
I don't know what it is but I feel that Forest Whitaker was holding back abit in this episode. I've seen 'Last King of Scotland' and he comes across brilliantly yet this episode... he was kind of going through the motions. Yeah, it still came across he wanted to nail Vic but you can kind of see how un-inspired Forest is in this episode.
Still... good episode, the pullapart brawl between Vic and Kavanaugh was well pulled off and the threat by Vic to him was even better. You really felt that Kavanaugh was desperate to end the saga with Vic and become like him.
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Post by finngirl on Apr 11, 2007 17:40:43 GMT -5
I have always thought that Kavanaugh was unbalanced .... the casting of Forest Whitaker reminds me of Stephen King's reaction upon hearing that Jack Nicholson had been signed to star in The Shining paraphrased: "I wrote a story about one man's descent into madness ... imagine my dismay when the role went to someone who already appeared so obviously unbalanced" I've been waiting for Kav to unravel since his first scene altho I expected much less control when it finally happened
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Post by finngirl on Apr 11, 2007 18:01:03 GMT -5
Does anyone know if the baby Danny had was Catherine's real life baby? I wondered about that also ... but she comments in the S5 DVD that her baby was beyond the newborn stage when that scene was filmed
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Post by aussieangel on Apr 11, 2007 20:42:19 GMT -5
Dan, Danny's kids name is Lee... she told Vic when he went to visit her at the hospital after having him.
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