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Post by Lemonhead on Apr 4, 2007 10:00:12 GMT -5
Anyone know the ratings for last night's show yet?
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Post by BenYankee on Apr 4, 2007 10:17:49 GMT -5
Everyone has some great observations, I'm going to watch it again this evening...but did anyone notice Tina in the porn shop? She seemed to have an 'unusual' interest in the titles located on the Amatuer section...maybe a skeleton in the closet for Tina? She also seemed quite 'sympathetic' to the porn industry in her dialogue with Julien... Oh yeah, there's no doubt that'll come back to haunt her. She was also VERY aggressive when it came to threatening the guy whose grandmother was in the video. I wonder if she was a little more willing to have those pictures taken last season than she let on.
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Post by westernplows on Apr 4, 2007 10:39:00 GMT -5
Yeah i have to agree if walton goggins keeps up this level of acting though out the season i think he has to be a sure lock for an emmy nomination this season.
It may be strange and i hear other people saying it as well but in my opinion i think shane is by far the most fascinating story this season, And i agree with E i almost fine myself feeling sorry for him with what he is going through.
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Post by cuffs on Apr 4, 2007 11:09:17 GMT -5
Did anyone else find it totally wierd that there would be a Bella Sara commercial in the midst of the -adult- mayhem last night??
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Post by Kern Little on Apr 4, 2007 11:35:55 GMT -5
Everyone has some great observations, I'm going to watch it again this evening...but did anyone notice Tina in the porn shop? She seemed to have an 'unusual' interest in the titles located on the Amatuer section...maybe a skeleton in the closet for Tina? She also seemed quite 'sympathetic' to the porn industry in her dialogue with Julien... Yes, I noticed that as well. The show has so many potential layers and subplots that you cannot possibly catch them all on the initial viewing. This show prompted me to get DVR so I could analyze the show more throughly.
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Post by tsarina on Apr 4, 2007 11:36:30 GMT -5
Yeah i have to agree if walton goggins keeps up this level of acting though out the season i think he has to be a sure lock for an emmy nomination this season. It may be strange and i hear other people saying it as well but in my opinion i think shane is by far the most fascinating story this season, And i agree with E i almost fine myself feeling sorry for him with what he is going through. I agree, maybe because Goggins is one of my favorite actors, I think he does a wonderful job, and I feel sorry for Goggins more than Shane. But I can relate to making a mistake by acting on bad information and regretting it (although I've never killed anyone, I've jumped to conclusions though).
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Post by Scartissue on Apr 4, 2007 12:36:17 GMT -5
One dent in Kav's framing of Vic will be where he supposedly met Emolia. Dutch jumped all over getting the highway cam's video tape to look into it. The ironic thing about it, is that Dutch got the idea from Kav, when Kav told him he was looking at highway cams as to where Vic was supposedly driving.
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Post by eclipsepinkfloyd on Apr 4, 2007 13:10:39 GMT -5
Wow, what an awesome episode. A++ Walton Goggins was magnificent in this episode. It was his best acting on the shield yet, and thats a powerful statement because he's done some amazing stuff so far. Kavanaugh has become the exact thing he has always tried to stop. I love that Dutch is too smart for Kavanaugh and he knows that something isn't right about him and emolias story. I also love how shane can't take the guilt. Seeing Danny interupt him with his gun in hand and crying reminded me of when Tommy killed himself in season 3. I think that Shane won't be able to hold it in and will come clean to Vic. Seeing Julien at Lems grave sight showed how much he touched everyone in the Barn. I thought that was a great scene. Shane screwing that girl at the end was great. It shows that Shane needs that to release some of the hurt and tension and pain that he has inside. Although they had completely different reasons to be doind it, its like Aceveda screwing that other girl in season 4. Its used as a way to release what can't be held in, and just like Aceveda eventually told his cousin, Shane will have to tell someone b/c that is too much to hold it, it will eat him up inside. Once again an absolutley great episode and great acting all the way around, especially Walton Goggins. A++
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Post by ISaidWhoaDangIt on Apr 4, 2007 13:17:18 GMT -5
This episode was well worth the year's wait we had to endure. Shane's scenes were great. The scene in the barn after Claudette tells him Lem didn't roll was intense, followed by the blank looks in the clinic and the scene in his truck. Incredible. Billings is a wuss. Always has been, always will be. I would have sent him home. Dutch's "You gotta be shittin' me" line was worth the wait as well. Kavanaugh has got to go. Framing Vic because he has nothing on Vic except Emolia's lie...he's got to pay. The sooner, the better. I'm sure Vic will be arrested or at least detained and someone will find out Kav framed Vic with the money (Were Vic's prints even on that money?) and the matchbook that Emolia gave to Kav (Again, where were Vic's prints?), then it's anyone's guess whether the PD will handle Kav or if Vic will have his way. I opt for the latter. Now we just have 6 days, 7 hours, 45 minutes until the next episode.
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Post by eclipsepinkfloyd on Apr 4, 2007 13:19:47 GMT -5
There was definitely some very interesting parallels in this episode. Particularily concerning Vic, Kavanaugh, and Aceveda. All three of them had a hand in the events that eventually led to Lem's death. Since none of them actually wanted to Lem to die, they've all got to be feeling some degree of guilt and responsibility. All three of them deal with this in different yet somewhat similar ways. Vic deals with his guilt through sheer determination to find the killer. He might see finding Lem's killer as sort of absolution for the path he set Lem on. He also feels a need to spread responsibility on other people to clear his mind. Notice how he tells Shane at the hospital that Guardo is the only man responsible, yet in scenes with Aceveda and Kavanaugh he blames them. Aceveda has a slightly more cold way of handling it. He attempts to shield his guilt by placing most of the blame on Lem and some on Vic. He rationalizes it by saying had Lem never become dirty, he never would reached the point where he would be killed. Kavanaugh's is the most complex. While he probably believes genuinely that Vic killed Lem, that reason can't be the only one that he decides to frame Vic. After all, he genuinely believed that Vic killed Terry, but he never attempted to frame him for that. A lingering feeling of guilt is the most likely reason that he'd be suddenly so willing to cross that line to nail Vic. I mean he was already feeling guilty about Lem when all he was doing was sending him to jail. He sees nailing Vic as some twisted way of justifying Lem's death so that it isn't in vein. Either that, or I'm talking out of my ass. You decide. Great analysis, I didn't look at any of these that way except vic pawning his guilt off on the other 2, I completely agree with what u said.
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Post by ISaidWhoaDangIt on Apr 4, 2007 13:20:14 GMT -5
Everyone has some great observations, I'm going to watch it again this evening...but did anyone notice Tina in the porn shop? She seemed to have an 'unusual' interest in the titles located on the Amatuer section...maybe a skeleton in the closet for Tina? She also seemed quite 'sympathetic' to the porn industry in her dialogue with Julien... Yes, I noticed that as well. The show has so many potential layers and subplots that you cannot possibly catch them all on the initial viewing. This show prompted me to get DVR so I could analyze the show more throughly. . We all knew Julien was going to react the way he did with his disgust of it. Ever since his rebirth from being gay to being straight married to Vanessa, he's been on the wagon of do gooders. But I did notice the Tina thing. Maybe she was looking for herself.
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gspot71
I am Satan reincarnated
Posts: 44
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Post by gspot71 on Apr 4, 2007 13:22:03 GMT -5
Pretty good episode.
It's going to be interesting watching Shane & what he goes thru this season.
You can tell he's got a deathwish after hearing about Lem & how he never ratted them out regarding his new deal.
It was also oh so obvious he was going to go back and nail that girl he chased down in the beginning. Shane,Shane,Shane
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Post by eekay on Apr 4, 2007 14:00:29 GMT -5
I give it an A --but then, I'm hard pressed not to give any Shield episode an A, these days. If something isn't clear, I just assume that, as the String Theory guy says, "all things will be made known."
Some observations:
(1) Before the episode aired, I had anticipated some kind of early "disclosure" in the season opener. This is a classic Shield move and one which helped distinguish it from all other shows since the pilot episode. A "normal" cop show would have taken its entire theme from the Aceveda-Mackey-Crowley scenario laid out in the pilot: "Will Terry catch Vic doing something dirty? Will Vic find out that Terry is a rat, and that he's working for Aceveda? If he does, how will he be able to shake them off?" Any other cop show would have squeezed years out of that cat-and-mouse game. The Shield writers blew that convention out of the water by letting Vic "discover" the truth about Terry off camera and put a bullet in the person who should have been his major threat by the end of the pilot episode. "Well, shit," I thought when the credits rolled. "Where the hell are they going to take this now?!?" And another Shield fan was born.
But the Shield writers have kind of made a habit of starting the action in Act 3, or what would have been the climactic Act 3 of any conventional drama. And they love slipping in little details unannounced and unexplained --like Danny's pregnancy in S5, or Shane's relationship with Mara already established at the beginning of S3. So I was expecting something. And while I personally couldn't see how Vic could find out that Shane killed Lem quite this early, I wouldn't have put it past them. But instead they got the "Lem wasn't turning on you and you didn't actually have to kill him" thing, which on a conventional show would have been a good climactic mid-season Act 3 disclosure to drive Shane over the edge, out of the way in like the first 15 minutes. Classic Shield. And yes, Walton Goggins did a great job with the initial reaction and the lingering grief and remorse. And yes, I wanted Shane to feel every bit of it. I am kind of surprised that Shane didn't track Aceveda down and chew him out for lying to them as well as Vic, though.
(2) Interesting to see genuine shock, and possible sympathy, even, on Aceveda's face when Vic shoved his badge and gun at him. I think that Aceveda knows Vic well enough to know that he would do just about anything rather than kill Lem. Anyway he didn't look too comfortable with being the "face of the decision". Hmm.
(3) I have always thought that Kavanaugh was unbalanced, and now he's gone completely over the edge. I think he shares something with Aceveda in that they both need, rather than just want, to have control over things; and when they lose that control, they react much more strongly than someone who knows how to roll with the punches. Aceveda has proven a little more cool-headed so far, or at least less easily completely unhinged. . .
(4) IMO it was a dumb move on Vic's part to say what he did about Kavanaugh's ex-wife. Now that Kavanaugh knows that he had sex with her, and Vic knows that Kavanaugh knows, I think it would be much more effective if Vic played it off like he and Sadie have some sort of understanding --that Sadie got "sick" because Kavanaugh couldn't give her what she needed. Which Vic can, of course ;D.
(5) Something bugs me about the whole Emolia thing. I know it shouldn't, because ratting on people for money is what she does, but I'm suspicious about it. She seems more confident and sure-footed than she ever was, where she should be more scared than ever if she really thinks she has people trying to kill her and her family. I suspect her of working for somebody else besides Kavanaugh --whether it's Vic, or AC Phillips, or whoever.
(6) When are people going to stop underestimating the deductive powers of the Dutchman? How could Kavanaugh possibly lie so poorly to him? (Answer: he's nuts.) Dutch is all over Kavanaugh's lies like white on rice. Even if it means undermining the investigation against Vic. It's going to be a pleasure to watch. The only reason I have any doubt that Dutch will discover and expose Kavanaugh's dirty tactics is because it seems too obvious; and we know that "obvious" is the last thing these writers ever do.
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Post by danimal12483 on Apr 4, 2007 14:11:17 GMT -5
i loved the show!!!i thought it was great, i really sat up when claudette told the team that lem didn't take a deal. shane was great in this episode!! cant beleive there is 9 more of these still to come. cant wait to see how vics replacement plays out.
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Post by Blanket Party on Apr 4, 2007 15:15:02 GMT -5
I also liked how Danny's baby's daddy is still a secret. It still seems that Vic is the kid's father, and it was interesting to see Corrine show some compassion about the autism thing in that little conflict between the two of them. That was one intense scene though also. Danny can be downright mean when she has to be. I agree. Everything suggests Vic, but it's yet to be explicitly stated. All Corrine has to go on is Kavanaugh's inferrence last season.
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Post by twistedjustice on Apr 4, 2007 15:43:55 GMT -5
the only thing i guess i have a problem with has nothing to do with the episode, i just have a problem with people blaming vic for what shane did.
yes i realize vic killed terry in front of shane, but to go and say shane was traumatized by it, and to say that vic is responsible is crap, thats just an excuse for shane not to feel as guilty, shane made a mistake, and did something horrible, live with that, its no one elses fault but shanes
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Post by mwk ~aka~ Witchykitty on Apr 4, 2007 15:56:20 GMT -5
the only thing i guess i have a problem with has nothing to do with the episode, i just have a problem with people blaming vic for what shane did. yes i realize vic killed terry in front of shane, but to go and say shane was traumatized by it, and to say that vic is responsible is crap, thats just an excuse for shane not to feel as guilty, shane made a mistake, and did something horrible, live with that, its no one elses fault but shanes $20 says Shane blames what he did to Lem on Vic, at least in part. I gave the ep a B, only because I've seen better Shield eps. Compared to other shows, it'd get an A+++. Walton Goggins was awesome, and so was Michael Chiklis. I'm actually rooting for the Dutchman this season, only because I want him to catch Shane and Kav. That whole "pimp/mentor" thing with Tina is too creepy. I want her to go down, too, besides the usual ppl already listed. Hopefully, that new case won't take too much of Dutch's time away from finding Lem's killer.
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Post by BenYankee on Apr 4, 2007 16:45:18 GMT -5
By the way, we haven't mentioned this much but that bloodbath at the end was something. That's a whole lot of dead bodies. Wow.
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Post by -|E|- on Apr 4, 2007 17:40:29 GMT -5
Did anyone else find it totally wierd that there would be a Bella Sara commercial in the midst of the -adult- mayhem last night?? I must have missed that one! lol Something I noticed was that the first commercial break came around 25 min into the show... is that longer than normal?
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Post by eekay on Apr 4, 2007 17:44:22 GMT -5
^I did notice that and it's abnormal for a regular episode but not for a season premiere, a series premiere or a made-for-TV movie.
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