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Post by mwk ~aka~ Witchykitty on May 2, 2006 10:42:13 GMT -5
Here's a 4/30/06 article from North Jersey about TV characters dying off. Nothing new but not the same article that quoted SR. Interesting read though. The link is at the bottom; I had trouble with a direct link to the article - maybe the url is too long. Here's the blurb regarding The Shield if you don't want to read the whole thing: "On the other hand, killing off a beloved character could really backfire.
Many fans of FX's "The Shield" were incensed by the death of Detective Curtis "Lemonhead" Lemansky (Kenny Johnson) in the recent fifth season finale of "The Shield" -- and especially by the fact that he was killed (with a grenade) by his friend and fellow detective Shane Vendrell (Walton Goggins)."www.northjersey.com/Go to Entertainment/Living > TV & Radio > TV and scroll down to the April 30th articles > "Now you see them... now you don't"
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Post by icy on May 2, 2006 14:01:38 GMT -5
Yep, it does seem like shows of late do go for intensity. But killing off main characters isn't anything new. It isn't always for ratings. Sometimes it is because a character is leaving the show. Sometimes it is because the person has passed away in real life. Maybe it is part of the prolific writers ending to the best cop drama in cable television history...
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Post by mwk ~aka~ Witchykitty on May 2, 2006 18:09:12 GMT -5
I must say, I get a bit of personal satisfaction where it states that killing Lem backfired on them. But really, I guess it's too soon to tell if it really backfired. I'm sure it all depends on the storyline (whether it's good or not), ratings (will more or less tune in b/c of Lem's death?) and how SR feels about how they did (that bastard killed Kenny!).
I have no doubt that TS is ending with S5.5, but when it comes down to it, SR still has to report to FX. Any trust they have in him is because the show has been a pretty decent success. I mean how many critically acclaimed shows have gotten the axe early on because ratings sucked... Anybody remember if ratings were good in S1?
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Post by icy on May 3, 2006 14:20:59 GMT -5
The premiere of "The Shield" was the highest rated debut of a scripted series in basic cable history, with more than 4.8 million viewers.
I know the premiere was good. And every site I have checked out on the Season One DVD gives it four stars.
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Post by candylandgal on May 3, 2006 18:42:45 GMT -5
You know, even though I absolutely hate the loss of Lem, my boy, with a passion that can't be put into words...even though the thought of a season of The Shield without him doesn't seem like it can fully be The Shield at all...even though I could still cry in an instant at The Scene and live in a world of denial when watching old seasons, and still have 87 % of myself screaming "I KNOW you didn't just kill Lem when the boy was just trying to enjoy his freaking sandwich!" in painful misery... I can't ignore the genius of it. And make no doubt about it, there is genius in it. Emotionally, I've tried to shut out the initial internal whisperings that are all..."Gggggeniiiiuuus"...at me. When Season Six/5.12 returns and Lem is not on my screen, I'm going to want to do everything in my power to shut off the blinking "GENIUS" banner, but the truth is... Sometimes genius is painful, and I don't think it has ever, ever, not ever been more painful than it was in this twist of Shawn Ryan's pen...er...typing wrist...but try as I might, even the pain can't make it less so. There is a method to the madness that is The Shield, always has been, and it is complex, intense, brilliantly orchestrated, and as much as I hate to admit it and have that small part of me that might want to join in and say "See what you did???" just because gosh darnit, that was 'MY LEM!!"... ...there is no way that this show can be lumped in with killing off a character for a ratings spike, for shock value, for ick value, in a stroke of mindless insanity, because they wanted to piss someone off, because they were pissed off at someone, or just because they could and power is cool. I believe with everything in me that this is going to be the basis for everything that unravels in the end. It is the basis for a whole new examination of everything that has come before it and a whole new analysis of everything that comes as a result of it. Lem remains at the heart of the story, and...*swallows hard*...I will attempt to deal with the fact that he's not so much the 'in the flesh' heart anymore. *sniffles piteously* It's classic tragedy brought into this century, completely redefining the tragic hero until you question everything...absolutely everything...feeling a thousand different emotions, forced to weigh it against characters that we've come to love and to defend, and...the courage of such a move was HUGE. There's no way that it could have been easy, and I hate the thought of Ryan and company being punished for it. The full circle nature, the ends, the means, and everything in between, has never been more clear, the story and these complex characters never been more powerful and impact weilding. Yep. It ain't easy, but it's genius. And I'm right back on board to watch it all play out in a blaze of glory. (Disclaimer: Much therapy was needed to carry this poster from "A Pox on You, Shawn Ryan and I Can Never Ever Not Ever Watch Another Episode of The Shield Ever Again!!! early moments to this place of thought )
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evan4413
For once, can't we just do what we're supposed to do and STOP?
Posts: 16
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Post by evan4413 on May 3, 2006 20:28:56 GMT -5
I have to completely agree. This show has always been smart, too smart maybe, but they really out did themselves with The Scene (i like the way you put it candylandgal).
I am appalled that so-called "fans" are saying the show jumped the shark , did this for ratings, is "stupid" now, etc. They are all saying it because this show has done the impossible- it has twisted die-hard fans emotions (true emotions, not just feelings about the show) into something that could be percieved as negativity, when in fact it has spawned a deeper yearning to watch the show and truly see how this tragedy plays out.
mwk mentioned that we will see how the audience reacted when 5.12 plays, and i think that the result will be obvious-- EVERYONE will watch. How could you watch Lem die and that be it for you? the shield will obviously justify Shane's actions, for better or worse, and it will be EXPLOSIVE no doubt!
This makes me think back to the end of season 3. When I watched the beloved Strike Team dissolve before my very eyes, I was pissed. I didn't cry like I did with The Scene, but I was furious- "this show sucks now!" "the team is the show... it can't be good now!" etc.
and what did season 4 prove? that even in the shield's arguably worst season, it was still far above anything else on TV, both past, present, and probably future. I was grinding my teeth waiting for season 4 to start, and when it did, I watched it religiously.
this brings me to the end of season 4- happy times. The ST is in the bar, all is well, they got antoine, everyone likes each other again, etc. Who cares if IAD has a wiff of Lem's heroine confiscation (GREAT foreshadowing, btw). I wasn't nearly as on edge about seeing the next season (5). I was excited to see what happened, but I rested easy knowing my team was together and happy.
Now, with 5's unhappy (to completely understate) ending, I am a mess. I can't believe they did this to me in only 11 episodes, and I applaude, NO i salute, FX for bringing such a brilliant piece of art onto the television and into my (our) life!
[glow=red,2,300] #thanksign# Shawn Ryan and the entire Shield team.[/glow] we are truly indebted
amen
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Post by qb on May 3, 2006 22:04:38 GMT -5
Great post, Evan. It has me thinking, again... do you suppose The Shield will achieve cult status? Probably not on the level of Star Trek, but when the series is over--will there be gatherings of Shield fans? We could debate "The Scene" for years... jwc could do scholarly presentations on esoteric topics, Dead Armenian could do the convocations and prayer breakfast, E could coordinate all of the promotional stuff & logistics, Shawn Ryan/Glen/et al would come as guest speakers, etc Wouldn't that be cool?? Ok, I'm dreaming...
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Post by electroshockblues on May 4, 2006 4:40:30 GMT -5
Great post. Its good to hear from a big Lem fan who can actually admit that having Shane kill him was the right way to go.
All the others who say that Lem's death 'jumped the shark' seem to prioritize characters over storytelling. They would rather keep a character around purely for the sake of the character, than sacrifice that character in order to tell a story that is true to the themes and history of the show.
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Post by mwk ~aka~ Witchykitty on May 4, 2006 14:06:00 GMT -5
Speaking as a Lem fan, I think they could've taken the show in any one of A LOT of different directions. I don't think they 'jumped the shark' either though. It's just the beginning of the end, unfortunately. It is a quality show, and will definately be a cult favorite. It IS totally amazing how they've caused all this turmoil with viewers; I'm still horrified and sickened to this day! So much that I'm not sure I wanna watch. Maybe I'm being too sensitive, but I'm like that with other shows and movies too. I usually steer clear of movies with sad endings and stuff, otherwise, I just get left with a bad feeling. Ick! Maybe if KJ got a regular part in another show, it might make me feel better about it. It was too bad he knew he was leaving all season long and couldn't look for new opportunities. Even though he is getting paid for it, it still kinda sucks. Hopefully somebody important is reading this! ;D
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Post by striketeamwashere on May 4, 2006 14:10:30 GMT -5
Great post, Evan. It has me thinking, again... do you suppose The Shield will achieve cult status? Probably not on the level of Star Trek, but when the series is over--will there be gatherings of Shield fans? We could debate "The Scene" for years... jwc could do scholarly presentations on esoteric topics, Dead Armenian could do the convocations and prayer breakfast, E could coordinate all of the promotional stuff & logistics, Shawn Ryan/Glen/et al would come as guest speakers, etc Wouldn't that be cool?? Ok, I'm dreaming... You forgot the 300 men walking around with a bald head and leather jacket, as well as people being married in Shield-themied weddings. The groom dressed up like Shane or Ronnie and the Bride as Danny or Connie.
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Post by candylandgal on May 4, 2006 18:40:34 GMT -5
Great post. Its good to hear from a big Lem fan who can actually admit that having Shane kill him was the right way to go. All the others who say that Lem's death 'jumped the shark' seem to prioritize characters over storytelling. They would rather keep a character around purely for the sake of the character, than sacrifice that character in order to tell a story that is true to the themes and history of the show. Thank you! It can be such a struggle because Lem was just the guy that I wanted to put in my pocket and keep safe forever, you know? (But I think his hair would have stuck out and given him away, in the end) He inspired that kind of adoration and loyalty, so there's that part of me that wants to say everything about losing him is the ultimate in unfair...not to mention I seethe every time I consider Shane post The Scene and what must be be done to him before I'll be satisfied ...but how The Shield has taken courage to a new level with it all? It just can't be overlooked, and definitely can't be lumped in with a bunch of decisions with weak or complete lack of reasoning behind them. You just know that this is going to be big. Huge. And it can't come soon enough, even as I want to savor it. Paradoxes everywhere!
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Post by axeman61 on May 6, 2006 1:51:50 GMT -5
My God. I agree with everything.
When Lem died like that, it HURT me. I mean that. I was talking about it to people I know don't watch the show, and I was unable to listen to certain songs in my music collection. I never thought a TV show could do that to me. I was shocked when the President got it on 24 at this season's start, but it wasn't like this. Even with my hurt though, the show has ascended in my head because of it. I'll be on season 5.5 like a bug light, and this season was one of the best of the show.
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Post by qb on May 6, 2006 11:59:33 GMT -5
My God. I agree with everything. When Lem died like that, it HURT me. I mean that. I was talking about it to people I know don't watch the show, and I was unable to listen to certain songs in my music collection. I never thought a TV show could do that to me. I was shocked when the President got it on 24 at this season's start, but it wasn't like this. Even with my hurt though, the show has ascended in my head because of it. I'll be on season 5.5 like a bug light, and this season was one of the best of the show. Yes, HURT is the word. It may sound silly, but I was deeply wounded by Lem's murder...esp by who did it and how it was done. I felt sick for days.
I actually went through the grief process, too. First, just being stunned. Woke up the next day and it was my first thought..."OMG, Shane killed Lem!" Then some serious anger at Shawn Ryan for doing this to us. I felt betrayed. The finale led us on...even making jokes about getting Lem to Mexico. He had suffered so much all season. Surely, they would let him go. No, they slaughtered him with a sandwich in his hand. Such an innocent, trusting moment.
I have the tape on my bedroom dresser...where I left it that night. I glance at it sometimes and think "no, not yet" I don't know if I can ever watch it again.
Now I am almost afraid of what Shawn will do to us in the back ten. I know anything, even the most horrific & cruel, could happen. It's both exciting and terrifying!
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Post by icy on May 6, 2006 13:32:02 GMT -5
My God. I agree with everything. When Lem died like that, it HURT me. I mean that. I was talking about it to people I know don't watch the show, and I was unable to listen to certain songs in my music collection. I never thought a TV show could do that to me. I was shocked when the President got it on 24 at this season's start, but it wasn't like this. Even with my hurt though, the show has ascended in my head because of it. I'll be on season 5.5 like a bug light, and this season was one of the best of the show. Yes, HURT is the word. It may sound silly, but I was deeply wounded by Lem's murder...esp by who did it and how it was done. I felt sick for days.
I actually went through the grief process, too. First, just being stunned. Woke up the next day and it was my first thought..."OMG, Shane killed Lem!" Then some serious anger at Shawn Ryan for doing this to us. I felt betrayed. The finale led us on...even making jokes about getting Lem to Mexico. He had suffered so much all season. Surely, they would let him go. No, they slaughtered him with a sandwich in his hand. Such an innocent, trusting moment.
I have the tape on my bedroom dresser...where I left it that night. I glance at it sometimes and think "no, not yet" I don't know if I can ever watch it again.
Now I am almost afraid of what Shawn will do to us in the back ten. I know anything, even the most horrific & cruel, could happen. It's both exciting and terrifying! I had to be more confrontational with myself. Because I was in a state of disbelief. I am not allowing myself to be sad. I hate to be sad. I hate to be upset. I just keep playing the same scene over and over again. I guess I am still in the denial stage. I don't want Lem to be dead. I really don't want my favorite f*cking show to end. Goddammit. I don't want to deal with the fact that there are only ten more f*cking episodes. It kills me. That is the painful truth.
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Post by axeman61 on May 6, 2006 16:41:59 GMT -5
Wait a second.
Has there been some confirmation that the back 10 are the final 10?
The certainty you guys are talking with is scaring me.
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Post by icy on May 6, 2006 19:09:28 GMT -5
Wait a second. Has there been some confirmation that the back 10 are the final 10? The certainty you guys are talking with is scaring me. I can only speak for myself. But, I do not see "The Shield" moving on past the last ten episodes. I do not believe that there has been any words spoken. I think that the series speaks for itself. "The Shield" has been portrayed wonderfully. You weave a brilliant masterpiece and you end it when it is great. I think that is what Scott Brazil would have wanted. I think that is what Shawn Ryan is going to do. How can The Strike Team go on without Lem? How long can Vic play cat and mouse with Kav? I think the hiatus gave us a period to mourn our dear Lem. It gives the writers a chance to write the finale to this masterpiece of a show. We fans get to take a collective breath as the end is finalized. We will see the best and the worst in our beloved Shield characters come to the screen. If I could only clap for them...I would pull a few thunder clouds out of the sky to help show my appreciation. BRAVO! The end is not here yet. But, I must brace myself. nonetheless. I am not good with goodbyes. Maybe I will just say see ya later and watch my re-runs forever.
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Post by qb on May 6, 2006 19:58:29 GMT -5
Wait a second. Has there been some confirmation that the back 10 are the final 10? The certainty you guys are talking with is scaring me. I can only speak for myself. But, I do not see "The Shield" moving on past the last ten episodes. I do not believe that there has been any words spoken. I think that the series speaks for itself. "The Shield" has been portrayed wonderfully. You weave a brilliant masterpiece and you end it when it is great. I think that is what Scott Brazil would have wanted. I think that is what Shawn Ryan is going to do. How can The Strike Team go on without Lem? How long can Vic play cat and mouse with Kav? I think the hiatus gave us a period to mourn our dear Lem. It gives the writers a chance to write the finale to this masterpiece of a show. We fans get to take a collective breath as the end is finalized. We will see the best and the worst in our beloved Shield characters come to the screen. If I could only clap for them...I would pull a few thunder clouds out of the sky to help show my appreciation. BRAVO! The end is not here yet. But, I must brace myself. nonetheless. I am not good with goodbyes. Maybe I will just say see ya later and watch my re-runs forever. I would think the decision has to be made by July, since they're filming the back ten over May, June and July (and August?). If it's going to end, I think Shawn will give us a real ending... not some fluffy driving into the sunset kind of pseudo-ending. Murdering Lem is like promising us something definitive...and, dammit, he owes us that much! If it's not going to end, then he'll leave us hanging again...but it'll never top how he left us this season without looking sharky.
Either way, I would expect news about the series ending or continuing to be out sometime this summer. Maybe Glen will give us a scoop?
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Post by Cletus Van Damme on May 7, 2006 3:46:34 GMT -5
Shawn Ryan said in an interview he gave in early April that he would know in a 'month or two' if the series would be continuing pasth te 'back 10' episodes'.
A month has already gone by, so we should know by early June at the latest.
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Post by -|E|- on May 22, 2006 16:38:59 GMT -5
As sad as it is, I too think the end is near. Although there's no official word yet, I just think.... I dunno; with Scott Brazil's death and Glen Mazzara's leaving ... I think it might be all too easy for SR to throw in the towel at this point. Maybe it's a sign. .... The timing of the loss of these 2 great members of the original Shield crew may have sealed its fate. :sighs:
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