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Post by electroshockblues on Sept 28, 2005 9:08:51 GMT -5
First off, I'm sure you'd all agree that 'The Shield' has always been a "dark" show, right from the pilot episode with its disturbing exploration of paedophilia and, of course, Vic's murder of Terry. Since that episode there have been many other disturbing cases and graphic acts of violence, such as Dutch killing the cat and Vic grilling Armadillo, but they always seem to have been balanced somewhat by humour. Take season 1 for instance, with episodes such as "Throwaway" and "Blowback" which have the Strike Team scrambling desperately to recover the weapon they planted/the drugs Shane lost. As high as the stakes were, and as amoral and violent as the Strike Team were in their methods, there was always an overriding sense of almost farcical humour emphasised by such lines as Aceveda's "You shot the wrong guy?" or Lem's "Christ dude, Amy's not even that hot!". What strikes me about season 4 though is just how relentlessly bleak it is. Whereas in S1 the team were scrambling around trying to find the drugs they stole/the money they planted now they're searching for the decaying body of a murdered 14 year old girl. Furthermore, while this is going on Aceveda is excorcising his demons via simulated rape with a hooker and Claudette and Dutch are investigating a case involving the rape of a seven year old child in foster care who's been force-fed bleach. Now, don't get me wrong - I've had no problem with any of these storylines individually. Its just that to cram so much unrelenting misery into one season makes for difficult viewing sometimes. The only comic relief I can recall in season four (baring in mind that I've only seen the first 10 eps - UK viewer here) is the coffee bandit case, Dutch's "hungry like the wolf" scene and the hilarious husband and wife double act in "Back in the Hole". Regarding Aceveda particularly, let me first say that I think that his storyline over the last two seasons has been absolutely incredible - to have him craving, and eventually achieving, power in S1 and 2, only to have it stripped from him in the most humiliating and soul-destroying way was inspired plotting, and post-rape we've seen some absolutely phenomenal acting from Benito Martinez. As graphic and violent as Aceveda's scenes with the hooker have been, and as much of an a**hole he's been to Monica this season, unlike most viewers, I always felt much more sympathy towards Aceveda than revulsion, and was glad when he finally(?) worked his demons out of his system in "Back in the Hole". However, just when I start to see Aceveda on the road to recovery in this episode, having quite a touching scene with Danny, no longer being an a**hole to Monica and reconciling somewhat with his wife, in the back of my mind, because I've read spoilers (stupid me), I know that he has Juan (his rapist) killed in prison in the coming episodes. It just seems excessively bleak that as soon as Aceveda has shaken off his increasingly dangerous rape fetish, started being a nice person again and has begun to get his family life back on track that the writers make him do something *truly* despicable and set him back on the path marked "self-destruction". I could sympathise with Aceveda throughout his rape ordeal, even during his increasingly violent simulated rape scenes - no matter how disturbing they were, but knowing that he has someone murdered just makes me not want to root for him and sympathise with him. Similarly, the scene where Dutch strangles the cat took the character down an incredibly interesting path, most recently followed up rather chillingly in his interrogation of Kleavon in "Back in the Hole", but it could also end up spoiling the character for me. I've had no problems with this storyline yet, but if by the end of the series Dutch becomes a serial killer, then we'd have Dutch, Aceveda, Vic and Shane all deserving retribution for having a hand in murder, which would, again be excessively bleak and leave us with fewer and fewer characters to like/root for. I just hope that when Dutch finally does go crazy that Claudette's there to support him . The scene when she watches him try to reach into Kleavon's state of mind through the interrogation room cameras suggests that she will.
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Post by leadinvestigator on Sept 28, 2005 10:39:20 GMT -5
Maybe I am excessively twisted but I've always rooted for The Shield baddies. I accept them at face value and go with whatever flow the writers create. Even with Assinvader, I knew he couldn't simply return to domestic bliss after fake raping his whore for a while. He is going to be messed up for the rest of his life, even if he ever did get real counseling. I would be disappointed if something more didn't happen with him, because he really can't just function now and never show those scars again. Oh, and having his rapist killed was ok-fine with me. You can't imagine the pure rage at being violated like that and I accept his decision, though his plan was reckless and Antwon will have the last word on the matter (imho)
I doubt Dutch will ever be anything but a solid professional. He has demons, as we all do, but he handles them. Sometimes not in the nicest way, but he does his job and does it well. Considering the kind of shit he has witnessed in his career, pretty amazing!
I can't recall specifics, but I think the latter part of S04 had a little more humor again (like Dutch dropping the dude in the wheelchair, Shane's return to hick insanity, etc) The closing scene, with Monica weeping and stunned in contrast to the happy party in the bar really sums up the nature of the series... esp with an IAD guy lurking in the background.
Makes me think of what the muslim widow said to Dani, "Justice will find you." I believe indeed it will find them all, whether as reward or punishment.
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Post by acc on Mar 20, 2008 16:42:55 GMT -5
It's rather an amazing statement that for a series which began the way it did with the bleak, in-your-f'in'-face Pilot, it has gone nowhere but darker and darker and darker throughout Season 1, Season 2, Season 3, Season 4, Season 5 and Season 6. Starting with Season 4, I believe, more and more people began complaining about this. By the time Season 3 was winding down it became clear that this was a pitch-black, epic and, yes, Shakespearean tragedy and it has really only become more caliginous in its content as it has continued. When Shane murdered Lem at the end of Season 5, it was yet another statement by the writers: This show is not ending happily, and things are only going to get worse and worse.
The ads for Season 6 with Vic and Shane, falling into the grave, was chilling and an excellent portrait of what the rest of the series is about from that point forward.
Knowing Season 7 is *THE END*, it sends chills up and down one's spine.
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Post by chemikalman on Mar 22, 2008 22:20:11 GMT -5
I thought of Caligula when I saw the word caliginous, heh. It also seemed to me that Vic was pulling himself out of the morass, at least the moral morass, he had sunk into ... and then he whaled the tar out of that Mexican guy who was anchored to the ceiling by a chain.
Actually, this show isn't nearly as depraved as some eps of Law and Order, SVU. There are some really evil, twisted perps in that show. What else is amazing is how there is practically an SVU mini-marathon every single day on USA network! What does that say about our society? I mean, they wouldn't be doing this if they were losing money.
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Post by angrybytch on May 12, 2008 14:39:24 GMT -5
I thought of Caligula when I saw the word caliginous, heh. It also seemed to me that Vic was pulling himself out of the morass, at least the moral morass, he had sunk into ... and then he whaled the tar out of that Mexican guy who was anchored to the ceiling by a chain. Actually, this show isn't nearly as depraved as some eps of Law and Order, SVU. There are some really evil, twisted perps in that show. What else is amazing is how there is practically an SVU mini-marathon every single day on USA network! What does that say about our society? I mean, they wouldn't be doing this if they were losing money. i watch the svu mini-marathons all the time since the shield isn't on. if u think that show airing daily makes a statement about our society, what does it say about me that i use it to substitute for the shield!!! ha ha ha! i must be real sick in the head....
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Post by Inside Man on May 13, 2008 17:46:15 GMT -5
My wife loves SVU so I've seen most of the 200 episodes (the Robin Williams ep from last week was #200). I enjoy it for the most part, but it doesn't feed my jones for The Shield. It's fairly formulaic in driving the plot along...sometimes I feel the most inspired they get is coming up with another sick perp. For airing on Network Television, it sure does get pretty damned perverted sometimes. Every once in a while, you find a gem. I liked the 'No Verdict' episode where they cut to black right before the jury read the verdict. You sure see a lot of Shield & Sopranos players on the L&O shows, too. I'll be starting a Season 4 Shield Marathon later this week, once I finish with Season 3.
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Post by chemikalman on May 13, 2008 17:58:57 GMT -5
I thought of Caligula when I saw the word caliginous, heh. It also seemed to me that Vic was pulling himself out of the morass, at least the moral morass, he had sunk into ... and then he whaled the tar out of that Mexican guy who was anchored to the ceiling by a chain. Actually, this show isn't nearly as depraved as some eps of Law and Order, SVU. There are some really evil, twisted perps in that show. What else is amazing is how there is practically an SVU mini-marathon every single day on USA network! What does that say about our society? I mean, they wouldn't be doing this if they were losing money. i watch the svu mini-marathons all the time since the shield isn't on. if u think that show airing daily makes a statement about our society, what does it say about me that i use it to substitute for the shield!!! ha ha ha! i must be real sick in the head.... Angrybytch, how do you think I know there are mini-marathons every day? It ain't from seeing the program listings scroll by!
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Post by angrybytch on Jun 17, 2008 17:19:52 GMT -5
i watch the svu mini-marathons all the time since the shield isn't on. if u think that show airing daily makes a statement about our society, what does it say about me that i use it to substitute for the shield!!! ha ha ha! i must be real sick in the head.... Angrybytch, how do you think I know there are mini-marathons every day? It ain't from seeing the program listings scroll by! ok, so you're just as sick in the head as i am. that makes me feel better. at least i'm not the only one. ab
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Post by electroshockblues on Jun 18, 2008 4:25:17 GMT -5
I started this thread nearly three years ago, which was long before Lem's death and before everything basically fell apart with the Strike Team.
I still feel that S4 is too dark though. Even though some of it is very hopeful (Monica giving Vic a chance, the ST reuniting, 'Amazing Grace' etc) it still feels incredibly oppressive to me. Even moresoe than later seasons.
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Post by angrybytch on Jun 18, 2008 16:51:24 GMT -5
I started this thread nearly three years ago, which was long before Lem's death and before everything basically fell apart with the Strike Team. I still feel that S4 is too dark though. Even though some of it is very hopeful (Monica giving Vic a chance, the ST reuniting, 'Amazing Grace' etc) it still feels incredibly oppressive to me. Even moresoe than later seasons. wow. i never noticed the date on the original post. that's kinda cool that u started it so long ago and people still post on it from time to time. i think it's the darkest of all the seasons as well, only i like it that way for some reason. it's not hard for me to watch. don't know why... ab
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Post by electroshockblues on Jun 19, 2008 15:29:20 GMT -5
Yea, I was surprised about how long ago I posted it as well. It makes me feel old for some reason and I'm only 23, hah.
I'm actually surprised to realise that I've been a Shield fan for nearly four years. It really doesn't feel that long, probably because the show has kept my attention the whole time and has never really been out of my head, so to speak. I've always been thinking back on old episodes and anticipating the next episode/season.
I'm not a big film person - I much prefer (high quality) TV series that reward long-term investment. Since The Wire finished recently, once The Shield finishes there will be a large chunk out of the "entertainment/leisure" part of my life. That said, I'm really pleased that they're wrapping The Shield up whilst its peak.
The only time my interest really waned was Season 4 (bringing my post back on topic). Along with the oppressive feeling I get from it I just don't think that the writing was up to scratch at all. The first five episodes treaded water around the Shane/Antwon thing, before finally doing something significant with Angie's murder and the eventual confrontation between Vic and Shane in episode eight, but then that awful, muddled Carl and Scooby mess took up the rest of the season.
That plot really seemed as though it was made up on the fly, and it didn't hold my interest at all. The good things I have to say for Season 4 is that:
a) Though it was weak, it didn't "spoil" the show - no characters do anything out of character, there are no plotholes that contradict earlier seasons etc.
b) It sets up Season 5 perfectly with the Lem/Amolia/IAD stuff.
c) It introduced Antwon Mitchell to the show (he was overused in Season 4, but his superb appearances in Seasons 5 and 6 more than make up for this).
d) 'Grave' is one of my favourite episodes ever. I loved the resolution to the Gilroy's storyline, the funeral scenes, the introduction of Nancy (like that character) and the 'Amazing Grace' montage.
e) I liked the idea of Vic earnestly trying to go straight. It was the best "arc" of the season, and is positioned perfectly within the series as a whole (ie, right in the middle).
f) Aceveda's storyline was great. Thought it was largely inconsequential to the main plot (barring him having Juan killed), and some might say that the writers were struggling to find reasons to fit the character into the show after he left the barn, it was an excellent arc for the character and it was neccessary to follow up on Aceveda's mental state after what happened in Season 3. I'm so glad they decided to keep the character around after he left the barn. His Season 5 and Season 6 stuff has been great.
g) Nice to see a focus on the black gangs for a change, rather than the Armenians and the Mexicans (who take a back seat for once).
h) Kleavon Gardner is the best villain that Dutch and Claudette ever investigated (why have I not seen that actor anywhere else?)
That sounds like a lot, but really thats just subplots and little nuances I enjoyed. The main plot was really lacking.
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Post by angrybytch on Jun 20, 2008 14:03:02 GMT -5
electroshockblues, your knowledge of little details of the show is amazing!
ab
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Post by acc on Jul 3, 2008 19:30:57 GMT -5
That's a good rundown of Season 4, electroshockblues. I'm 23 as well, and I've been a fan since the series was launched on March 12, 2002, so I feel as though I've grown up with the series, kind of, from adolescence into adulthood. It's been a blast.
I'm also sort of the opposite of yourself. I rarely watch TV shows, and have an incredibly difficult time getting "onto" a particular show, especially for any extended stretch. I'm much more of a movie buff/fan/enthusiast. So for me to become as addicted to The Shield as I am is something unto itself.
Anyway, I actually don't care for the Aceveda arc in Season 4 all that much. To me, much of it really was about just keeping him in the loop of the series, even if it was good for character development. The issues with he and the prostitute have nothing to do with Juan, though, so it's kind of a bait-and-switch.
Season 4 gets blasted quite a bit among Shield fans, and it's understandable--and I used to kind of feel ill towards it, but Season 5 by itself completely redeemed it for me.
As far as darkness goes, I actually thinK Season 6 was the darkest. This series got kind of Bergmanesque in its bleakness post-Lem's death. Those first six episodes in particular are bitterly tenebrous. And the whole season, really, from beginning to end, has this Grand Guignol feel to it that is positively oppressive at times.
But I'm cool with it, because I think the show has been going darker with each passing season. In that way, along with the overall quality of the series, I think The Shield has been remarkably, almost shockingly consistent, and for that I applaud it.
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Post by tigerlily on Jul 4, 2008 1:32:54 GMT -5
Maybe it's just me, but I never thought of season four as all that dark. The only storylines that, for lack of a better word, bothered me were the Aceveda/hooker rape therapy storyline and Angie's killing. I still cringe everytime Angie gets shot. I enjoyed season four a great deal and found Glenn Close to be a good addition to the show.
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Post by guy6324 on Jul 9, 2008 21:05:47 GMT -5
The only reason I think season 4 can be considered darker than the others is because it really makes it clear that Vic and the team are locked in the cycle of violence and they can never break free of their actions.
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Jul 10, 2008 19:43:12 GMT -5
SpikeTV is now showing S4 and already I think it's gotten a lot more darker than Seasons 2& 3. For one thing Shane is even more violent and showing some criminal sides to him, and what's up with Rallings?
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Post by cheatmaster8 on Jul 28, 2008 21:47:39 GMT -5
Season 4 is good though. Its something new with Antwon Mitchell loose, and a new captain. It does change rapidly though from season 1-3. I mean they could of made it darker with Armadillo.
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Post by F*ckernando on Jul 29, 2008 5:01:00 GMT -5
season 4 is a transition of a 7 part masterpiece , after the striketeam breakout , monica fitted perfectly , beautiful season , full of friggin ultra awesome acting performances.....just look at shane in back in the hole, confronting antwon, or monica confronting assinvader in Judas Priests.....yea
enormous, bombastic season...nothing neas "weak" season...nono...
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Post by shieldaddict on Nov 29, 2008 15:54:54 GMT -5
I dont see whats troubling people so much about season#4? Like F*ckernando says ^ it was defineately a transition in a seven part masterpiece- Strike team broken up,new captain-therefore a new chapter in the storytelling. I urge everyone with issues with season 4 to rewatch the entire series then tell us whether or not your mind has changed. Maybe its me, but I tend to see The Shield as a whole as opposed to individual seasons.
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Post by armadilloquintero on Nov 29, 2008 18:43:18 GMT -5
I like season 4 better than season 3 or 6. I found season 3 had fascinating Dutch/Claudette stuff but the Money Train fall out and the Strike Team stuff dragged on a bit long.
Season 4, on the otherhand, had a great villain in Antwan (who got a lot better after the Angie stuff especially when he was arrested), great work from Glenn Close (I liked the seizure stuff a lot - it was pretty original) and it set up pretty much everything that happened with the Strike Team from then on.
The Aceveda I'm mixed on and I do agree that it was, partially, just a reason to keep him on the show but it was very good character work by Benito Martinez.
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