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Post by gundam94 on Nov 28, 2008 10:59:36 GMT -5
I found this on The Shield page at IMDB. The guy who posted it is McFWilliam. But I felt that it was too good not to post it here. So I am just reposting good work. Here it is:
1. They can't prove the money train robbery - Lem and Shane are dead. Most of the Armenians involved are dead and they wore masks. Ronnie never spent any of the money and the money is gone so how are they going to prove he robbed the money train.
2. Shane is dead - That means Shane can't go out of his way to burn Ronnie, his testimony teamed with Vic's would have been deadly for Ronnie.
3. The People Ronnie committed crimes against are all criminals. - It's not like he hurt innocent people, a good defense attorney could tear apart drug dealers who said Ronnie robbed them.
4. Ronnie had nothing to do with Terry Crowley. - We don't know if Vic ever admitted to telling Ronnie about Terry Crowley's murder. Him and Shane were the only ones in the room. It's Vic's word against his that he knew about it.
5. Vic isn't exactly a great witness. - He confessed to all those crimes, no he is going to take the stand, he's not really a rock solid witness.
6. Vic won't go out of his way to burn Ronnie. - Vic has his immunity, that doesn't mean he has to go out of his way to testify in court or help in any investigation against Ronnie.
7. Ronnie's record is clean. - He was the only one on the strike team that didn't have a bad record, he always stayed clean and in the background, that will help in his defense. He could argue he was as guilty being part of the strike team as Tevon or Julian, or that guy from Moonlight last season was.
8. Lem is dead - The only other guy that could back up Vic's claims is dead.
9. The LAPD will want to keep this quiet. - Think about everything that's happened at the barn the last 3 years, Kavanaugh tried framing Vic, Gilroy goin to jail, that one cop who hired someone to break into his house and got his family killed, another cop helping his buddy find his ex-wife and kill her, Antoine Mitchell killing cops, Terry Crowley getting killed by a cop, Lem getting killed, and Shane killing his pregnant wife and son. Last thing in the world the LAPD would want is a long trial they might not be able to prove and will expose even more negative press.
10. The Feds will want to keep this quiet. - They gave a cop killer full immunity They will keep pressure on the LAPD to keep Vic's crimes from getting out.
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Post by electroshockblues on Nov 28, 2008 11:41:08 GMT -5
Vic's confession is pretty damning.
Vic had no other reason to confess other than to get immunity for things that actually truthfully happened. It would be easy to see to anyone that Vic had no reason to lie, and every reason to tell the absolute truth.
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Post by acc on Nov 28, 2008 12:03:00 GMT -5
Several of your points make a good deal of sense. Ronnie could fight this for a few years in court, I believe. Maybe he could find a way to RUN!!!! (Sorry, a flashback to "Minority Report.")
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Post by rattler on Nov 28, 2008 12:22:09 GMT -5
what about his part in the aiding and abetting with Shane?...his money drop top Corrine in Echo Park.
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Post by Nick Mills on Nov 28, 2008 13:40:59 GMT -5
Considering they've got Ronnie on an 'aiding and abbetting' and with Vic's damning testimony, it's probably expected he WILL be jailed. His statement to Vic didn't help either - "you told them.. all of it?" doesn't exactly point to Ronnie being innocent. He then said he was "going to run". Not the words of an innocent person. If he pleads guilty, he'll still get a hefty sentance. It's not as if Vic would have lied about his crimes to get 'immunity'.. Vic's testimony was the final nail in the coffin for Ronnie.
And he's also going to prison where Antwon Mitchell and 1-9'ers await. He's either dead or in prison for a very long time. Either way, Ronnie was betrayed. That's pretty much the general gist of what went down.
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Post by Strike Team 4 Life on Nov 28, 2008 23:41:09 GMT -5
Ronnie won't (wouldn't) get life in jail.... Maybe he get's the Butch Dyke or another lawyer to shave years off what already shouldn't be too long of a sentence.
My guess is less than 10 years.... jails are overpopulated so only the worst are kept in for life, it's expensive to keep prisioners locked up in jail.
He just needs to stay clear of Antwon Mitchell and other people out to get him and Vic.
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Post by Ronnie'sBeard on Nov 29, 2008 2:32:40 GMT -5
All they've got Ronnie on is the aiding and abetting/conspiracy involving Shane, and that's because they have is the testimony of Claudette/Dutch etc who saw him make the drop and can explain their sting operation. Vic's statement is completely inadmissible hearsay (even assuming the Feds would let the local prosecutors use it, which given the egg on their faces they certainly would not).
As for all the other possible charges, like everyone's been saying, they really have nothing on him. They're going to charge him with covering up a cop killing which the feds now actively have to cover up? Unlikely.
Throw in the politics as the OP pointed out, and I could even see this turning into a very quiet plea deal and a long house arrest. Obviously his pension and job are finished, but he may not even end up in Antwon Mitchellville.
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Post by gundam94 on Nov 29, 2008 9:15:56 GMT -5
Yes Beard thats is exactly what I am trying to get at. All of the higher-ups at ICE & the LAPD, the DA, and the Mayor would want this to just go away. I really doubt they would let this go to trial.
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Post by Symbiote on Nov 29, 2008 14:31:43 GMT -5
They don't have him on aiding and abetting. He never said a thing regarding what was in the bag, he could easily claim that Vic had simply asked him to drop off the bag to her. They have no proof he looked into the bag, and we don't even know if he looked into the bag, though we know he knew what was in it. And even if they did, that doesn't prove he knew what it was for. Could've just been for Corrine. I don't recall Vic having to testify against Ronnie in the agreement of his immunity, either.
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Post by gachabi on Nov 29, 2008 15:09:19 GMT -5
First, can someone who got immunity for his crimes/thefts (Vic) be used as a witness in a lawsuit centered on those crimes/thefts ?? I don't know the answer but without Vic, a lawsuit would mean nothing.
You have also the "testament" of Shane saying Vic and he are the culprits.
Ronnie will have a lawyer. I also think he isn't screwed, far from it.
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Post by Ronnie'sBeard on Nov 29, 2008 18:55:47 GMT -5
Good point, Symbiote. Ultimately even the aiding/abetting will be hard to prove without Vic Mackey's testimony as to why he sent Ronnie there. Still, they could potentially play a recording of the phone calls between Vic and Corrine to try to build a circumstantial case. A crime like this usually requires specific intent, and if both Vic and Corrine refuse to testify, then Ronnie can argue he had no clue what he was dropping off for Corrine or why. At best it would be a very circumstantial case against him.
As to gachabi's question, yes Vic could be used as a witness in such a lawsuit, and this is pretty common practice, especially in cases where you flip one member of a conspiracy to testify against the rest. As for Shane's "testament," generally a statement like that is inadmissible hearsay (at least to prove the truth of the matter it asserts) because the author is dead and can't testify in support of it (and it doesn't concern the direct cause of his death).
Anyway, this all makes me feel better about Ronnie's ultimate fate...while you're watching that last episode it really feels like Vic has condemned him to die in prison. Maybe now he'll just be stuck at home with an ankle bracelet.
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Post by F*ckernando on Nov 29, 2008 19:09:01 GMT -5
WHERE IS SMITTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Nick Mills on Nov 29, 2008 20:04:22 GMT -5
I think it boils down to this - Vic's testimony, Dutch's investigation of the Strike Team, Kavanaugh.. it's all going to boil in Ronnie getting prison time and no longer being a cop. But the biggest stringer of them all was he was the only one who took the fall for the Strike Team's crimes - the Money Train, Crowley etc.
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Post by layne1975 on Nov 29, 2008 22:42:03 GMT -5
I have to agree with most of these. Although Vic confessed to these things to get his immunity deal, it doesn't mean that Vic would testify against Ronnie in a trial. First of all, I honestly think that Vic was about to bolt in that last scene. If he was caught he might testify but probably not.
There's no direct evidence against Ronnie, but there is some circumstantial evidence. I think the only way they would go after Ronnie is if they were tying him to Vic. But if Vic is running (which I'm sure he is...there's no way he'd sit at a desk 9 to 5) then Ronnie is safe.
Claudette arrested Ronnie to get back at Vic. They have nothing to really charge him with on his own.
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Post by badcop187 on Nov 29, 2008 22:50:19 GMT -5
They don't have him on aiding and abetting. He never said a thing regarding what was in the bag, he could easily claim that Vic had simply asked him to drop off the bag to her. They have no proof he looked into the bag, and we don't even know if he looked into the bag, though we know he knew what was in it. And even if they did, that doesn't prove he knew what it was for. Could've just been for Corrine. I don't recall Vic having to testify against Ronnie in the agreement of his immunity, either. You got it, Ronnie can just say Vic asked him to take Corrines workout clothes to her because she forgot them. And without Vics testimony they have NOTHING!!!!!!! And even if Vic testifies, are they going to take the word of an Admitted murderer? They have NO hard evidence, just hearsay from Vic Mackey.
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