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Post by n00b on Nov 19, 2008 10:20:14 GMT -5
When Corrine got arrested, I figured Vic would go back to Olivia, without Ronnie. But the problem I have with all of this is that the feds can grant immunity only from federal prosecution. In the real world, Vic would still be wide open to state prosecution and all of the crimes he mentioned would be state offenses (some might have overlapping federal aspects, but the feds cannot grant immunity from state prosecution). Claudette should know that. If this point goes uncorrected or mentioned, I'll be disappointed in the lack of any realism. I agree with you, but I'm not entirely sure of the law here. The President of the United States can grant immunity or pardon to anyone for any crime committed in the US. Perhaps "full immunity" in this context means with tacit approval of the office of the president? They kept going back to Washington for approval. I'm thinking something like this goes all the way to the Attorney General's office, therefore having the implied approval of the executive branch and thus the office of the president.
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Post by marty666 on Nov 19, 2008 15:02:40 GMT -5
When Corrine got arrested, I figured Vic would go back to Olivia, without Ronnie. But the problem I have with all of this is that the feds can grant immunity only from federal prosecution. In the real world, Vic would still be wide open to state prosecution and all of the crimes he mentioned would be state offenses (some might have overlapping federal aspects, but the feds cannot grant immunity from state prosecution). Claudette should know that. If this point goes uncorrected or mentioned, I'll be disappointed in the lack of any realism. I agree with you, but I'm not entirely sure of the law here. The President of the United States can grant immunity or pardon to anyone for any crime committed in the US. Perhaps "full immunity" in this context means with tacit approval of the office of the president? They kept going back to Washington for approval. I'm thinking something like this goes all the way to the Attorney General's office, therefore having the implied approval of the executive branch and thus the office of the president. Exactly... and yes Feds CAN provide immunity, which would negate and state case. I mean come on... Witness protection? You saying they would just go bust Henry Hill on a state charge? Bullshit.
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Post by nycdj on Nov 19, 2008 16:38:49 GMT -5
hmm maybe thats how the presidential motorcade will tie in
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Post by jeffh on Nov 19, 2008 18:01:31 GMT -5
In my opinion this has to end bloodly for about everyone involved because if they just get arrested, it would leave to many unanswered questions about the characters.How much time do they serve or the death penalty.That may happen to Ronnie but I don't think so for Vic and Shane.Whats great is you can't really know,just guess, with Shawn Ryan.Alot of TV shows are predictable but thats one reason I've liked this show over the years,its not.
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Post by czarina369cz on Nov 20, 2008 0:52:57 GMT -5
I can't believe the disturbed ambivalence I am feeling. I never thought I would want Vic to burn. I do not want him to walk.
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Post by MY3RZ on Nov 20, 2008 3:50:44 GMT -5
After re watching the episode for the 4th time I cant help but think Vic has a plan to keep his emunity and save ronnie cuz if we've lernt one thing from the shield its that vic never makes any rash decsions or dose anything without a well laid plan.
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Post by n00b on Nov 20, 2008 10:12:40 GMT -5
After re watching the episode for the 4th time I cant help but think Vic has a plan to keep his emunity and save ronnie cuz if we've lernt one thing from the shield its that vic never makes any rash decsions or dose anything without a well laid plan. I disagree. Did you not see the resignation on Vic's face? He knew he was selling out Ronnie. I could be wrong, I've been wrong before when it comes to these writers, but as I posted before even IF Vic has an end game, it can't possibly involve "good choices" for Ronnie. Sure Vic could help Ronnie run, but how is that being a "friend" when you get immunity and then help your buddy run? Vic's choice to screw Ronnie will lead to his downfall.
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Post by texasdude on Nov 20, 2008 11:08:53 GMT -5
"i lost respect for Mackey"
Uhhh, Dude, he killed a cop in the very 1st episode.
So, telling his sins to get immunity for himself and his family is a mortal sin, but killing another cop who was not corrupt is not?
Talked about warped.
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Post by texasdude on Nov 20, 2008 11:12:39 GMT -5
Another thing, in the real world, there is not such thing as immunity. It doesn't really work that way.
Vick confessed and it was recorded. There is no statute limitation on murder. Sure, a defense lawyer would say he was tricked, but the reality is that, in the real world, Vick would be turned in and charged for all the crimes he confessed signe immunity papers notwithstanding.
That was an old cop trick, by the way (I mean, what the ICE agents did) whether the writers realize it or not.
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Post by texasdude on Nov 20, 2008 11:18:04 GMT -5
From what I understand, Henry Hill has been busted several times while in witness protection and is know out on his own with no protection.
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Post by slipperyslope on Nov 20, 2008 17:10:39 GMT -5
there is no limitation on immunity? i guess watching 24 all this time has been false...terrorist responsible for killing ppl get full immunity by the president and off the hook
back to the shield....vic is so stupid or just selish...for his confession, he shoulda confess to olivia about tipping off ronnie and that hes already half way to mexico...problem solved. he saved his friend and keeps his immunity. besides...ronnie wanted to run away in the begining anyways so no difference now. I guess it wouldnt had been as dramatic if sean ryan went that route
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Post by slipperyslope on Nov 20, 2008 17:11:29 GMT -5
of course 24 is fake...but at least the immunity agreements are part true if signed and sanction by the president right?
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Post by slipperyslope on Nov 20, 2008 17:14:08 GMT -5
o yah...for burning ronnie. more than ever now...i hope his family dies. or at least cassidy. since the other 2 kids have autism and thats enough suffering for vic to have to raise them forever. but cassidy? shes smart, beautiful, vics hopes and legacy...take her out of the equation, vic has nothing to live for. all his betrayals and sacrifices will be for nothing
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Post by n00b on Nov 20, 2008 17:40:28 GMT -5
I'm not so sure about this "immunity is not possible" theory. There are plenty of murderers etc. who're set free every year because of "deals" like this. Perhaps we and writers are confusing immunity with a pardon? I don't know enough about the law, but I tend to think something like this is possible if you know the right people.
Of course, it's all a TV show. But The Shield tries to be as realistic as possible.
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Post by n00b on Nov 20, 2008 17:46:48 GMT -5
Of course, even with "immunity" wouldn't Vic still be liable for civil lawsuits (Terry's brother etc.). This assumes, of course, that ICE would make his crimes public. Perhaps one of the sections of the deal makes all his confessions confidential until such time as he may or may not be prosecuted for a crime and ICE lawyers would have to step in and show the grant of full immunity?
Again, I'm not a lawyer, so just speculating.
I agree the whole "immunity" deal has a lot of holes in it. I mean, Vic didn't even have an attorney review it first, which is a huge plot hole, IMHO.
But it made for great television, so with only one episode left, I'm gonna let it slide.
But if an real attorneys out therein TSR-land want to educate us, I'm all ears.
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Post by bnyrabbit on Nov 21, 2008 14:09:31 GMT -5
nOOb, I have to disagree with your criticism of Vic for abandonning Ronne. I think this was finally the scene where Vic chose between his loyalty to his Strike Team brotehrs and his loyalty to his family. When he couldn't make both happen, he came down on the side of his children. I agree with his choice because Ronnie voluntarily continued working with Vic, while Vic's chidren never volunteered to be affected by their father's deeds.
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Post by jeffh on Nov 25, 2008 4:04:13 GMT -5
Its only a show...To some extent the show is unrealistic from season 1 to season 7 but it makes for great TV and its fun to watch.Will be remembered as a true classic.
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Post by electroshockblues on Nov 25, 2008 5:18:29 GMT -5
nOOb, I have to disagree with your criticism of Vic for abandonning Ronne. I think this was finally the scene where Vic chose between his loyalty to his Strike Team brotehrs and his loyalty to his family. When he couldn't make both happen, he came down on the side of his children. I agree with his choice because Ronnie voluntarily continued working with Vic, while Vic's chidren never volunteered to be affected by their father's deeds. I definitely agree with you to some extent, but in showing Vic betray Ronnie like Shane betrayed Lem its clearly painting him as a hypocrite. Remember in 7x01 when Shane tells Vic he would never hurt Vic's family, and Vic replies "Lem was family"? Though Vic suggests he loves his team members as "family" this clearly isn't the case as he chose Corrine over Ronnie. Furthermore, it wasn't a simple "one over the other" choice either - he had a choice of letting Corrine get in trouble over a single aiding and abetting charge or letting Ronnie go to jail for absolutely every Strike Team crime he was involved in (possibly including Zadofian's murder, which Ronnie did as a favour to Vic and his family).
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