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Post by chemikalman on May 3, 2007 9:15:00 GMT -5
I'm getting buried alive at work so I don't have time for more than a short blurb, but re the comments that the show isn't as fun to watch anymore, jumping the shark, etc. ... you can't have it both ways: you can't cry about the show ending after next season and at the same time say how it's letting you down now.
This is exactly what Shawn Ryan has said repeatedly ... that he wants the show to sprint across the finish line, not limp. I have confidence that he will deliver. Are you spoiled by the greatness of the show ... has the "mistress bar" been raised too high? Do you say screw them when your fave sport team or athlete goes through a slump? Actually, I'm still enjoying the hell out of the show. For those of you who think it's going downhill, think of this as the show pacing itself, getting ready for the big sprint. Seven seasons, even if some of them are split, is an awful long time to be consistently excellent throughout ... just like the 400 meters race in track and field is the longest full sprint all the way. I have no doubts that our jaws will drop again, probably more than once.
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Post by Strike Team 4 Life on May 3, 2007 10:57:29 GMT -5
Why wasn't there anything about Vic's breakdown last episode???
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Post by Nick Mills on May 3, 2007 11:38:38 GMT -5
Apologies. Won't do it again.
I assume because many just assumed that it was a blowup over the frustration Vic's been going through and so just left it be; he didn't seem to carry that into work. It's rather like your friend dying, you trashing the waiting room, leaving and coming back. Is someone going to go "Oh, so trashing the waiting room, huh?". No, they're going to try ignore it because it's the spur of the moment reaction.
I also agree with this. Not to make *more* comparisons with Sopranos but people have complained that the show has dwindled in terms of quality since they split the season up. It was all meant to be one; and it's supposed to enter the tensions, the bullshit that erupts during the final nine. And boy does it ever; it's brilliant compelling stuff at the moment. The Shield can't always have the best episodes ever because it's got to lay the groundwork FOR these compelling storylines.
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Post by acc on May 3, 2007 13:10:51 GMT -5
6x05 Haunts (great episode title and -edit-) is a big step in the right direction after last week's abrupt creative fiasco. That said, I do think some of these very high grades (A's) has more to do with last week's episode than this week's, and because so many were dissatisfied with last week's episode this week received rosier reviews than it probably earned.
I give the episode a B. Big step up from last week, but by no means a killer episode.
I really, really liked the direction by Michael Chiklis. This is his third episode behind the camera and I think it's his best. Not as showy, far more restrained but when he did show off it was always for a good reason (like jwc said, that great shot in the park where Clifton Collins, Jr.'s character gets knocked down by Kevin as Vic and Ronnie walk away in dismay was simply outstanding and there were several other great shots, too).
Everything said about Walton Goggins is absolutely true. His acting this season is miles ahead of anything he's done on the series (and that says A LOT, especially when you consider key moments from Season 3 and even more Season 4). Shane is a character that on paper should most likely tire easily in the eyes of the viewer--he's a classic screw-up, an emotional weakling, a complete disaster in so many ways. He's like a wicked combo of Sonny and Fredo--violently tempered and pitiful in his fears of remaining in Vic's shadow forever, etceteras.
Mara was well-written in this episode. The Shane-Mara dynamic is like a reverse fim noir dichotomy. Usually the dupe (guy) thinks the femme fatale only acts ruthlessly to preserve their relationship but in this relationship it's Shane (logically) who has to do the misdeed to save them from anything bad (like Shane going to prison). I agree that it's perfectly sick and twisted how Mara seemingly forgives Shane for his affair *because he murdered Lem* but these two characters bring out the worst in one another (as Adam E. Fierro noted himself)--lest we forget their conversation in Jailbait or their confrontation in Slipknot (which reminds me--Chiklis really knows how to direct Hicks and Goggins, and when they're together they glow).
My wife actually complained about the Joe story being largely pointless although I think I changed her mind by pointing out what others here have--the implications surrounding Vic's eventual fall from his job. I actually enjoyed how brisk and tight and focused this story was. No reason to pad it out and it got the point across succinctly. And, honestly, Carl Weathers is really good at portraying this character. The looks on his face as he watches that psycho cop go to work in that place spoke volumes. When Joe looks at Vic walking away after punching out that cop (Lester was his name?) you get the sense that secretly he's happy; Vic still has some dignity left. Inside Straight, you're absolutely right that Joe's statements in Partners helped influence Vic's decision to take down the Money Train, no question about it (as I pointed out before, in Season 2 it was Vic's "good mentor," Joe, who inadvertently gave Vic evil advice while it was his "evil mentor," Gilroy, who inadvertently gave Vic good advice--in 2x10 Coyotes when Gilroy simply says, "I got greedy... I lost everything... There's a lesson there, Vic.")
I don't understand why people say that this season's arc is being rushed. Five episodes isn't anything to sneeze at and if Vic does find out the truth in the very next episode (I have no idea, I just have a personal hunch) then I'd say this whole thing has been very well-paced. I always thought it would be a *real* stretch for Vic to not know until the end of this season; what's the point, anyway? Let's get to it, and, frankly, I hope we get there as fast as possible because I think that's when this season (and the series at large) will take a dramatic shift in the right direction, both creatively and in terms of the characters themselves. I think this all is giong to boil down to Vic vs. Shane in the mother of all wars--Shane knowing about Terry, Vic knowing about Lem, both having nuclear weapons of their own against one another if they wish to take the other down, both knowing they can't afford to because the other has just as big an arsenal. I say bring it on, to quote our president.
Finally, the Dutch "Go Home" rapist. Completely agree with jwc that the guy screamed guilty. (And, as a result, I kept praying that he *wasn't* guilty because it seemed incredibly predictable--extremely so for this show!) That said, it did give Dutch a different kind of story, which was nice, and I liked seeing Steve Billings get emotional for the first time ever. Just when you think the show's going to let you down on a character they redeem themselves wholly and make you remember that that character is a completely human person. Good job. And, again, I'm glad this isn't being milked to death, either; it wasn't a particularly engrossing concept so seeing it wrapped up here is fine by me. Time to unleash Dutch on the bigger matters pertaining to Farmington, like solving Lemansky's murder (haha).
Also agree that the show's darker tone--more somber, heavier, with more gravity and foreboding and doom--is actually only welcome by me. Of course, I don't want it to be complete gloom every minute of every episode because that gets quite boring quite fast. The previous episode was in its own way as lugubrious as the average Sopranos episode (which says a lot) and I understand the necessity to delve deeper into this ungodly mess that these characters have constructed for themselves but I much more enjoyed the take Haunts had than the previous episode and I get the sense that we're headed to even better things.
Julien on the Strike Team doesn't make much realistic sense; he's still a uni and Claudette's promotion of him seemed entirely too blase and unprofessional. *But* I suspect it too will go somewhere good at some point in the near future.
For the first time this season I think I'm achingly looking forward to the next episode. Frank Darabont directed it. He made The Shawshank Redemption, which is of course pure schmaltz but at least it's schmaltz of the highest order. (His latter efforts really are completely lame, however.) His executive producing of The Salton Sea and Collateral lead me to believe he's ready to tackle The Shield for an episode. I'm looking forward to it.
removed harmless mention of next ep title. -E
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Post by ShootFirst on May 3, 2007 14:04:02 GMT -5
I'll also commend Mara's character this ep. Some time back, I said I could only stand her back in things if it was limited and done right. She was done right this time. Not too much screen time but she had a big impact in the storyline and Shane's downward spiral. The character can still be screwed up but if she is kept around in this same manner, I have no problem with it.
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Post by Nick Mills on May 3, 2007 14:49:14 GMT -5
The guy who played the 'rapist'...
...Am I right to believe that he's the guy from LA Confidential who's Bud's (Rus Crowe's) partner?
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Post by murt1987 on May 3, 2007 14:54:18 GMT -5
B- Pretty good episode, Im quite happy with it. Pretty much everything I feel about this episode has been said above but I would like say again that Walton Goggns HAS to win an Emmy or a Golden Globe or whatever for his performances this season, what a guy. Im glad Im not the only one liking it but I do feel a little dis-heartened by the fact some of you guys are close to saying the show has "Jumped the shark". I have to say Im am really really enjoying this season, more so than season 3 and 4. Personally, I have plenty of memorable Shield moments far superior than others. I hope you guys begin to like the rest of the season soon like me
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Post by xer0signal on May 3, 2007 15:19:15 GMT -5
in regards to everyone disappointed in the direction the shield has been going this season:
did you people really not see this coming? the show has really always been set up to end as a tragedy. and now the time has come.
i really do feel like they've worked their way towards this perfectly. it's not going to be as much fun anymore because it's time for everyone to start paying for their sins.
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Post by Kern Little on May 3, 2007 18:28:34 GMT -5
I am on the verge of saying the Shield has "jumped the shark" however I will hold off on that for a while. I've been hearing this alot, about the Shield "Jumping the Shark"... Fact is that what is happening now in the show is a natural conclusion of the ST's previous actions. There's no jump the shark moment here, people. Pretty much everything in the show has made sense. I agree that it isnt as fun to watch as seasons past, but the Shield couldnt just be about the ST doing shit and getting away with it. There had to be a ending to the story, and usually these sort of stories end badly, with pain and suffering. Indeed.
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Post by eclipsepinkfloyd on May 3, 2007 18:35:19 GMT -5
Here Here. Its called a story arc. Am loving the this season. This change and I think its calss. I completely agree. This isn't the same as the previous seasons of the siheld, but if u think about it, its more heavy. Think whats at stake, we have Shane killing Lem without anyone else knowing it was him, and Vic going as crazy as he has to go to find the killer. This is Vic chasing Shane, this is a really heavys story line, where as before if they got busted they just went to jail, a lot more is at stake here.
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Post by -|E|- on May 3, 2007 18:49:03 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with the story, or where it's going.... just the episode "The New Guy." I won't say the show has gone awry; "Haunts" was well written and directed.
Of course, I'm tremendously sad that Lem is gone. That is having an impact on my enjoyment. Plus, I have to watch him blow up in every "Previously on..." segment. Grrr. I also keep forgetting that the writers intended for us to be nearing the end of a long season about now... not be smack in the middle of a short one.
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Post by badcop187 on May 3, 2007 20:59:42 GMT -5
I think the entire problem, myself and others are having is that the shield has been so awesome for so long, that now it is getting harder and harder for them to top themselves.
Even the worst episode is still the best shit on TV. If anyone read my earlier post, I did NOT say the shield DID jump the shark, just that the Corrine dream crap, was a start in that direction. I was not and still am not claiming the show has tanked. But based on this season so far, I am nervous about it losing some of the credibility the shield has earned in the last 5 or so years.
THe show has just shocked me so much in the past, and was so cutting edge, that it takes alot to impress some of us nowadays. I personally blame Shawn Ryan for making the first 5 season so damn good! LOL
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Post by badcop187 on May 3, 2007 21:01:45 GMT -5
Amendment: If the entire series ends with Vic and Ronnie walking away clean, or at the very least not ending up in Jail, I will have not lost one Iotta(sp?) of respect for the shield. Remember I am a VIc enabler, and he needs to "ride off in the sunset" at the very end.
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Post by kevinlockard on May 4, 2007 2:39:28 GMT -5
I came to this thread to wonder aloud "What's wrong with me?" Why am I just not feeling this Season like seasons past? I don't know, I just can't put my finger on it. Maybe I don't feel this underlying sense of urgency that has always permeated a season of The Shield. In Season 1, most of the undertone dealt with Terry aftermath and then smoothly shifted to Gilroy. The Strike Team were constantly mopping up messes. There was Armadillo and the Money Train in S2. Don't even ask about Season 3, which had shit coming at the guys from every angle. I know I liked those older seasons more because there was a recklessness and an anything-can-happen attitude. As a viewer, I never had an idea what was coming next. Maybe I also like those older seasons more because there was always a glimmer of hope that the guys can cover their tracks enough and get away with whatever it was they did. That ain't happening this season. To tell you the truth, I had those feelings about Season 3&4. I don't like either of those seasons all that much. I mean, I do, but they're my least favorite seasons, mainly because they don't have that impact that Seasons 1&2 had, where the ending of each episode pretty much had you excited you for the next one. The first 5 episodes of Season 3 were flawless. I mean, the Decoy Squad was introduced, Tavon and Shane got into an all-too-realistic fight that resulted in Tavon's crash, the Cuddler Rapist storyline was created, the ST find out the money was marked (a shitload of it anyway), Aceveda gets raped, etc. The season looked to be the best yet. But after the first five episodes, it started really lacking and I started losing interest. It's not that episode 6 in itself was ultimately bad, just that, ya know, it started to lose my attention fast afterwards. It lacked that Shield feeling I got from the first two seasons almost every episode (except for the useless Co-Pilot.) Season 4 had it's moments as well (the obvious ones) but overall, it just felt mostly like a normal cop show. Plus, I would have preferred if the ST had stayed together at the end of Season 3 and all throughout Season 4. However, I do share some of your feelings for Season 6, though probably not as much. I think Season 6 feels like it has a certain lack or urgency (to you more than me, I suppose) because it's only 10 episodes. I mean, that's still 10 episodes (which is only one episode less than Season 5, which felt like a full season), especially with the ones we've been seeing on The Shield, but I think it's the fact that the season doesn't feel so much like a full season of it's own as much as it feels like one really long episode all throughout that it meant to fully conclude the aftermath of Lem's death (and Season 5 in general.)
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Post by Cletus Van Damme on May 4, 2007 4:03:23 GMT -5
Amendment: If the entire series ends with Vic and Ronnie walking away clean, or at the very least not ending up in Jail, I will have not lost one Iotta(sp?) of respect for the shield. Remember I am a VIc enabler, and he needs to "ride off in the sunset" at the very end. Amen to that!!! I completely agree.
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Post by kevinlockard on May 4, 2007 6:22:34 GMT -5
I agree in the sense that Vic Mackey shouldn't end up in jail. He should not, however, walk away clean. I'm still betting on him ending up in Mexico all alone. Either way it goes, I do hope he is exposed for what he is.
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Post by Strike Team 4 Life on May 4, 2007 22:52:55 GMT -5
I am watching it now and I like how Joe Clark did offer to get rid of Lester.
Also this is random, but what is the band on the cd case that Shane snorts off?
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Post by badcop187 on May 6, 2007 7:57:29 GMT -5
Alright, I am ready to vote. I have rewatched and maybe it is not as bad as I thought, but still not an A. I am torn between a C+ and a B-. I think I will go with C+ Well at least next week looks a little more promising!
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Post by Inside Man on Jun 11, 2007 15:42:12 GMT -5
This is something that has always been a tidbit of a thought since this episode aired, but I've never really taken the time to work through it. I'm reflecting back on the season as a whole and I keep coming back to this episode because I think there's unfinished business. I have to defend the writers.
This is the episode where Dutch and Billings cracked the Go Home Rapist case, but it was Billings' insight rather than Dutch's that did the trick. I noticed a few people saying they didn't buy that Dutch wouldn't see the helpful father for what he really was. I agree with that a little bit.
The problem with Dutch not suspecting the guy isn't exactly true to Dutch's character, but--go with me on this--it is true to how Farmington as a whole sees him. And their perception is seemingly always the opposite of what's going on with Dutch.
In Season 1, we're introduced to Dutch as this goofy nerdy guy who keeps getting pranked by the people at the Barn. Over the course of the season, we also come to realize that Dutch is one hell of a good interrogator and investigator. But the people of Farmington don't see that. He's the face of the Sally press conference, then the investigation stalls. The round of applause when Dutch finally cracks the case is all cops, in-house at the Barn.
In Season 2, Civilian Auditor Laney Kellis saw none of Dutch's good qualities, let alone his policing skills. He's the goof who didn't get her paperwork in time. He tries to use his badge to weasel out of a parking ticket. He asks her out at the wrong time.
In Season 3, Dutch is left twisting in the wind by the Cuddler Rapist. The people of Farmington saw him underneath an overpass with a news crew, wasting grand amounts of time and money. He finally solved that crime, but his image had already been tarnished.
Now, in "Haunts," we have Dutch dropping the ball and Billings pointing out the obvious. But what does the populace of Farmington know? They see Dutch Wagenbach thinking quick on his feet when the Father withholds information. Dutch orders the camera turned off and gets the rest of the confession from him. I was proud of Dutch in that moment, even though he didn't see things right away.
It really was consistent with the way Dutch has been portrayed all along--completely misunderstood.
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Post by -|E|- on Jun 20, 2007 21:10:18 GMT -5
^ Food for thought, my friend. Thanks.
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