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Post by eekay on May 30, 2007 12:25:53 GMT -5
And then as a follow-up, what do you think that Vic will do?
If I were in Vic's position, I would realize that that picture was the trump card of all trump cards --and then get curious as to why it was handed to me. Aceveda isn't even mayor yet. He doesn't have nearly as much clout as he could eventually have, to do that construction dude the kind of favor he could be forced to do if necessary. Why, then, has he blown his wad, so to speak, in handing it to me? When I might possibly ruin Aceveda's future with it, thereby losing him (the construction dude: Pensuela? I'm terrible with names) a very useful political puppet? Answer: Either he's an idiot, or he has decided that now is the time to pull his trump card. He's clearly not an idiot, so he must really really REALLY not want me digging around in his involvement with Aceveda, Hernan, the one-armed Mexican with the suitcase full of cash, and the San Marcos murders.
So, what do I do with the picture? I show it to Aceveda. I show him what kind of an a**hole he's picked for a political bedfellow --a guy who would set up for ruin and humiliation a man who had done nothing but whatever he asked, for the "crime" of having been raped at gunpoint, by giving a photo of said rape to a gringo cop who everyone knows can't stand him. I share my suspicions about this a**hole developer with Aceveda, enlist Aceveda to help me find out exactly what that a**hole is trying to hide, and then bury the guy, with the picture --in return for my job, of course. And just for insurance and some leverage in case of attempted backstabbing, I connect the dots between that photo, Aceveda's visits to Juan and Antwon Mitchell in prison, and Juan's mysterious and fatal gym accident.
And that's what I hope Vic will do, too. I still maintain that there is a fundamental difference, mostly defined by wisdom and compassion, between Vic and Shane. And while Shane would undoubtedly jump at the easy win by simply blackmailing Aceveda to get his job back, and then squeezing every last drop of dirty joy out of it by making snide remarks at Aceveda for the rest of their lives together, I believe that Vic in his best moments is better than that. He's also smarter than that --he has to realize that whatever that construction dude is hiding has GOT to be something way more worth ruining a man's life for than being orally assaulted at gunpoint. And he also has to realize that Aceveda, though Juan may have preferred it at the time, is not toothless. Both his assailant and the guy who took the picture are dead, and it wouldn't take Vic long to figure out who they were and how they died. Aceveda may soon be mayor. There are plenty of other dudes in construction, if one should happen to go out of business. It would be wiser for Vic to tie Aceveda to him through gratitude, partnership and secrecy, than through fear and hatred. That's something Shane would never figure out. He would just keep digging the needle deeper and deeper until Aceveda, who is also not an idiot, thought of some convenient way to get rid of him.
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Post by ShootFirst on May 30, 2007 15:03:18 GMT -5
Very nice. By doing what you suggested here, Vic not only saves his job but he gives Aceveda the hint that in extreme times, they can work together when common interests are at stake. They will NEVER fully trust each other and in the event they come to some kind of working relationship, both will do what they feel necessary to keep some "insurance" they think they might be able to use if needed.
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Post by eekay on May 30, 2007 16:10:50 GMT -5
Not only is it smart tactics in Vic's particular style of having his cake and eating it too (a style he's perfected over the years), but it's a defining moment for his character. On the one hand, he has a chance to keep his job by taking nasty personal revenge on Aceveda. On the other, he can still keep his job and also solve his case --thus proving that he can NOT be bought, as Shane can-- and possibly bring down a really corrupt and evil dude, as Cruz is proving himself to be. He may even, though it's a stretch, be able to do right by Hernan, if it turns out that he went missing because of something that Cruz did or said. IF it's true, as most of us would like to believe, that Vic's crooked ways are prompted by a decent heart and a strong desire for justice, he'll pick something along the lines of my way. I only hope the writers are of the same mind. I would be sickened if they suddenly decided to make him act like Shane (or Billings, who obviously also loves to kick a guy in the cajones just for his own personal giggles). And I also would be sickened to see Aceveda get whatever karmic justice is coming to him over the one thing that's not his fault! Come on, guys. Pick a sin he's actually committed, if you have to, and ruin him over that. For that one episode in his life, he's suffered enough.
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Post by chemikalman on May 30, 2007 16:39:49 GMT -5
I would do nothing with the pic ... at first. I would treat it like it was the holy grail and put it in a safe place for possible future use.
I would tell Cruz, fine, I'll stop digging, but you have to use your influence to somehow persuade Aceveda (or whomever it takes) to let me keep my job. I think Cruz has the ability to do that. He's already got Aceveda in his back pocket and I'm sure he could find someone on the review panel or higher, as well. Meanwhile I would use my subtlest, most covert and ruthless techniques to keep digging up the dirt on Cruz ... like you said, cake and eat it too, eekay, just a different kind of cake. If Cruz finds out, then I go to Aceveda with whatever I found out about Cruz. If Aceveda doesn't buy into it, THEN I play my trump card. Meanwhile, if Cruz doesn't find out that Vic's digging, Vic can bring him down and be the King of Farmington (credit to our member with that username, heh).
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Post by eekay on May 30, 2007 16:51:45 GMT -5
All good thoughts, chem, except that I think if Cruz thought he could simply persuade Aceveda to let Vic keep his job --which he's already tried to do, BTW; you said you only caught the ep in spots, so maybe you missed the part where Cruz went to Aceveda's house and asked him to convince the panel to keep Vic-- he would do it. Same thing with higher-ups than Aceveda. If he could have worked things for Vic just by talking to people (letting Vic know, of course that it was his influence that made things work), he would be able to keep his Holy Grail/trump card all to himself, which would be the ideal situation from his point of view. So I have to assume that Cruz has come up against the same "mountain of ill-will" as that other guy with the dead junkie whore daughter, and was therefore forced to share his prized possession with Vic. Which again, means that whatever he doesn't want Vic to investigate must be REALLY interesting. . .
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Post by Strike Team 4 Life on May 30, 2007 18:19:30 GMT -5
I was too lazy to read what everyone wrote.... if it was me then I'd produce multiple copies and give Aceveda a copy and threaten to show his wife, kid and the press if Vic lost his job. I would also use the copy of the tape where Aceveda beat up someone in an interrogation room (you know he had to have had another copy or gave him a tape that really wasn't the tape) IMO
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Post by chemikalman on May 30, 2007 21:45:10 GMT -5
All good thoughts, chem, except that I think if Cruz thought he could simply persuade Aceveda to let Vic keep his job --which he's already tried to do, BTW; you said you only caught the ep in spots, so maybe you missed the part where Cruz went to Aceveda's house and asked him to convince the panel to keep Vic-- he would do it. Same thing with higher-ups than Aceveda. If he could have worked things for Vic just by talking to people (letting Vic know, of course that it was his influence that made things work), he would be able to keep his Holy Grail/trump card all to himself, which would be the ideal situation from his point of view. So I have to assume that Cruz has come up against the same "mountain of ill-will" as that other guy with the dead junkie whore daughter, and was therefore forced to share his prized possession with Vic. Which again, means that whatever he doesn't want Vic to investigate must be REALLY interesting. . . First, to answer "what would YOU do?" it's only fair to assume that we are in Vic's shoes; i.e., in the same exact situation. Then, we also can assume that we got into that situation by having the cunning, the history and most important, the balls of Vic. Therefore, this question becomes the same as "what do you think Vic will do?" And Vic just might have the balls to call Cruz's bluff--he might say "thanks very much for the picture. Now if you have the resourcefulness to come with this picture, you should also have the resourcefulness to allow me to keep my job. In other words TRY HARDER or I'll keep digging ... I might even show it to Aceveda and see if he wants to partner up with me." If you give Vic lemons he turns it into lemonade and if you give him lemonade he'll throw in some Absolut Citron Vodka and laugh at you while he raises his glass in a toast.
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Post by eekay on May 31, 2007 9:51:13 GMT -5
Nice. Can I get one of those to go, please?
I was not underestimating Vic's powers of persuasion, though. I was just making the assumption that Cruz has already done everything he can to get Vic's job back without having to give up the picture, since it's very much in Cruz's interest to hold on to it exclusively for as long as he can. Vic, of course, doesn't know for sure about Cruz's visit to Aceveda's house, but he has to believe that some attempt has been made. There's no way that Cruz goes from "Well, I asked nicely and he said no" to "I guess I'll have to potentially sacrifice my best political connection and/or sabotage my relationship with same by giving an unbelievably sensitive picture of him to his worst enemy, who doesn't like me much, either."
And I was specifically asking what each TSR member, themselves, would do. There's been a lot of talk on these boards about the picture and whether it exists and if people want to see it or not, and how much they do or do not want to see Aceveda suffer or squirm, etc. Well, now we have part of our answer --the picture exists and it's in Our Hero's hands. There are a lot of things that Vic could do with it --but my question is, what would YOU do? So far, only you, ST4L and I have answered the question, but our answers have been pretty different and pretty obviously based on our own temperaments and feelings about the characters involved. And they've all been believable options for Vic, as well. Vic may, of course, think of something entirely different, as is usually the case with this show. Maybe in the true spirit of having ALL of his cake, eating it too, drinking a pitcher of vodka and lemonade and then driving home with no ill effects, he'll figure out some way to save his job, regain control of the Strike Team, own Aceveda, bust the developer for whatever he's doing, and take out Claudette into the bargain. ;D
Ooh, look! With this post, I have become a GangBanger! Bienvenidos a la vida!
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Post by -|E|- on May 31, 2007 10:07:56 GMT -5
I wouldn't do anything with it. Burn it. I've said this before so I won't rant (this time ), but he's suffered enough over that incident.
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Post by eekay on May 31, 2007 10:17:19 GMT -5
I was pretty sick to see the picture resurface too, E. Pobrecito.
But would you not warn Aceveda that the picture exists? Even if you burn your copy, there must be others --or at least a source from which to print more. Obviously the a**hole who gave it to you wouldn't have any qualms about printing another one and either using it himself, or giving it to someone less scrupulous and kind-hearted than your sweet self.
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Post by chemikalman on May 31, 2007 10:25:40 GMT -5
Nice. Can I get one of those to go, please?
I was not underestimating Vic's powers of persuasion, though. I was just making the assumption that Cruz has already done everything he can to get Vic's job back without having to give up the picture, since it's very much in Cruz's interest to hold on to it exclusively for as long as he can. Vic, of course, doesn't know for sure about Cruz's visit to Aceveda's house, but he has to believe that some attempt has been made. There's no way that Cruz goes from "Well, I asked nicely and he said no" to "I guess I'll have to potentially sacrifice my best political connection and/or sabotage my relationship with same by giving an unbelievably sensitive picture of him to his worst enemy, who doesn't like me much, either."
And I was specifically asking what each TSR member, themselves, would do. There's been a lot of talk on these boards about the picture and whether it exists and if people want to see it or not, and how much they do or do not want to see Aceveda suffer or squirm, etc. Well, now we have part of our answer --the picture exists and it's in Our Hero's hands. There are a lot of things that Vic could do with it --but my question is, what would YOU do? So far, only you, ST4L and I have answered the question, but our answers have been pretty different and pretty obviously based on our own temperaments and feelings about the characters involved. And they've all been believable options for Vic, as well. Vic may, of course, think of something entirely different, as is usually the case with this show. Maybe in the true spirit of having ALL of his cake, eating it too, drinking a pitcher of vodka and lemonade and then driving home with no ill efects, he'll figure out some way to save his job, regain control of the Strike Team, own Aceveda, bust the developer for whatever he's doing, and take out Claudette into the bargain. ;D
Ooh, look! With this post, I have become a GangBanger! Bienvenidos a la vida! First, cheers to eekay for making "gangbanger"! I'm raising my glass of absolut citron and lemonade! Well, I have a personal policy of refusing "what if" questions because no matter what I think I would or might do in a situation, I can never really know until I AM in that situation. This is an even more extreme case--how can I, as a humble chem prof, say I would do this or that with the picture? I do like your last scenario, though ("Maybe in the true spirit of having ALL of his cake, eating it too, drinking a pitcher of vodka and lemonade and then driving home with no ill efects, he'll figure out some way to save his job, regain control of the Strike Team, own Aceveda, bust the developer for whatever he's doing, and take out Claudette into the bargain. ;D"). In fact, that's exactly what I think will happen. However, as you astutely pointed out: "Vic may, of course, think of something entirely different, as is usually the case with this show." Your Q is a great great one and it will be great fun to see what happens.
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Post by -|E|- on May 31, 2007 10:48:59 GMT -5
I was pretty sick to see the picture resurface too, E. Pobrecito.
But would you not warn Aceveda that the picture exists? Even if you burn your copy, there must be others --or at least a source from which to print more. Obviously the a**hole who gave it to you wouldn't have any qualms about printing another one and either using it himself, or giving it to someone less scrupulous and kind-hearted than your sweet self. Honestly, ever since I went to the set and met Benito Martinez, I can't hate Aceveda. Nothing that any of the other actors did changed my thoughts about their characters - just him. And he didn't even really DO anything - he was just himself. Weird, I know. So, I suppose I would want to give him the pic to let him know it's out there, but even then, I (as myself in real life) would feel too embarrassed for him. I couldn't bring it up! Mailing it to him anonymously would be even worse for him, so I have no idea what I'd do. I just can't believe the picture is back! They'd better explain how Evil Developer got it, and it better be realistic. Pobrecito is right.....
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Post by vladinator on May 31, 2007 10:53:24 GMT -5
Thinking about this in Vic's shoes, here is how I would probably handle it:
I would go to Aceveda's home to see him. The first thing that I would do would be to remind him of the time that I (I being Vic in this situation) brought him the tape to destroy so that it couldn't be used against him (Aceveda). Then, I would tell him that another situation has come up that puts me (Vic) in a position to protect him. I would then give him a copy of the picture and explain how I got it...
I would then ask Aceveda how deep his developer buddy must be in shit if he is willing to sacrifice Aceveda to get Vic to back off, especially knowing that Vic's time on the force is limited. Vic must be awful close to finding something BIG to cause this reaction, otherwise the guy could just wait a few days until Vic is off the force.
I would then ask that Aceveda use his ties to buy me (Vic) some time to dig deeper. Aceveda and Vic have had their differences, but with Vic reminding of the time that he had his back in the past along with coming to him with the picture, this would build some trust. Aceveda would have to realize that his interests lie with Vic rather than the developer and that the picture will be held over his head for a long time if he doesn't find a way to turn the tables.
If Aceveda doesn't agree to help me (Vic), then I would have to decide the next action. This would be determined based on whether or not I (Vic) knew that it was Juan in the picture. Using a rape picture to push Aceveda to help me (Vic) is a lot different than using knowledge of Aceveda's involvement in a murder against him. If I knew that it was Juan in the picture, I would have absolutely no problem using that murder to force Aceveda to help me....without that knowledge though, I would have a hard time using the photo for that reason...then again, it is Aceveda....
I expected Vic to find out about Aceveda's prostitute friend before the photo though...that would have been an interesting development...
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Post by Capone on May 31, 2007 11:02:46 GMT -5
If I were Vic, I would make a copy of it.......and wrap it up like a present....
I would go up to Ass invader about a day before the hearing......
I would say, "Here....a little going away present from me"......
I would wait for him to open it......and watch his expression......then I would say.... "I better keep my job, or that picture shows up on the internet, the news even in the papers. See you at my hearing"........and walk away...
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Post by eekay on May 31, 2007 15:51:05 GMT -5
Well, if you're one of those people (like me) who doesn't like to look at spoilers for upcoming eps, DO NOT go to FX's Shield web site. I went there looking for the proper way to spell Evil Developer's name, because it's been bugging me, and right there on the front Episode Guide page is a huge spoiler as to how this whole Vic/Aceveda/ED (I think that's nice. We'll just call him ED ) thing is going to be handled. Thanks, FX.
And I STILL didn't find out how to spell ED's name.
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Post by chemikalman on May 31, 2007 16:27:17 GMT -5
After what Aceveda did that led to Lem's death, plus all his other bad acts, there's no way I'd trust him or partner with him in any way. I'd still call "Ed's" bluff ... I thought his name is Cruz(?)
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Post by eekay on May 31, 2007 16:30:01 GMT -5
I THINK that it's Cruz Pensuela, but I'm not 100% sure, and you know me --I can't stand to be wrong.
And I capitalized ED so that it can stand for Evil Developer --or Erectile Dysfunction. Yes, it's petty, but I don't like him.
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Post by Capone on May 31, 2007 17:59:26 GMT -5
What I still want to know is how Ed or Cruz got ahold of that picture? This is driving me back to sanity (since I am already insane... )
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Post by lynch345 on May 31, 2007 19:40:23 GMT -5
If it's any consolation, over in the snitches board we've had almost a month, and we still don't know how to spell his name. Most of us have just been calling him "the developer".
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Post by eekay on May 31, 2007 20:50:33 GMT -5
Okay: According to the only sources I could find who would give me an actual name, the guy's name is Cruz Pezuela. However, though TV Guide confirmed Cruz as the first name, I've never heard of the organizations that gave the last name. One of them, as a matter of fact, listed the actor F.J. Rio as playing both "Cruz Pezuela" and "Cruz Pazuela".
Does anybody have the ep on VHS or TiVo? The last name is written on the side of the trailer Cruz comes out of to give Vic the picture. I know it's there, but I obviously read it wrong, because I thought it said "Pensuela".
Yes, I'm getting way off topic, but little things like this BOTHER me. . .
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