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Post by eclipsepinkfloyd on Dec 27, 2006 22:16:17 GMT -5
In that episode, at the end, vic tells lem that they have some unfinished business and he explains to lem that he cleared the bathroom but missed 2 time and thats how terry got shot. they don't make it clear wether vic was just trying to play it off for IAD or he was telling lem so that lem would believe thats what happened. What do u think, I don't really know which one to believe
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Post by stealingjoy on Dec 28, 2006 0:03:03 GMT -5
I was a little unsure about that as well. But after watching it I came to a conclusion. I think it's significant to note that Vic starts off looking at Lem and says "Here's the truth" then he looks down, avoiding eye contact, while telling the lies about Terry's death. However, he looks up again at Lem when he says "I made a mistake. I never told anyone I thought it was my fault. It's something I've been living with for a long time now. Finally I decided to move on. Something you're going to have to push past too." I feel that in that eye contact (and in the resulting note where Vic asks if Lem is with him) there is the understanding that Vic killed Terry. Plus, in the last episode, the way he cuts off Becca when she asks about Terry with "You've heard enough!" seems like he believes Terry's death wasn't an accident. So that's my opinion I love the subtle acting by Chiklis and KJ.
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Post by bachatan on Sept 24, 2008 15:53:58 GMT -5
i agree i just saw that episode yesterday, the shield is a great show because they trust us to figure things out, they dont paint a picture everytime,
i agree that he was saying that for iad, but also lettin lem know that he did it and he realizes he shouldnt have
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Post by acc on Sept 26, 2008 11:50:08 GMT -5
stealingjoy, that's a tremendous analysis of that scene, and different from anything I've read about it. Makes a world of sense.
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Post by Lemonhead on Sept 26, 2008 16:35:04 GMT -5
I always took it that he was playing IAD but feeding Lem a line that Lem obviously knew was a line. Lem knew Vic killed Terry onwards. He just chose to move on.
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Post by electroshockblues on Sept 26, 2008 18:40:15 GMT -5
I agree that Lem knew for certain that Vic killed Terry. Naturally, as many have said, this would lead him in his dying moments to think that Vic had ordered Shane to kill him.
In addition to that though, I think that Lem's willingness to "look the other way" regarding Terry's death in favour of the increasingly hollow "brotherhood" of the Strike Team is the natural conclusion of the tragic flaw that he displays throughout the series (his favouring of Vic, Shane and Ronnie over his strong moral sense).
I think a lot of people overlook Lem as a genuine, Shakespearian tragic character in himself in favour of Vic and Shane. The fans seem to characterise him as an "innocent victim" just because he had more steadfast morals than the other ST members, but for the most part those morals only surfaced to be argued against or ignored by him just because he wanted to maintain his sense of brotherhood and family (which he craved after having had a poor family background). He was party to nearly all of the Strike Team's crimes, and even though he felt more keenly than the other members that what they were doing was wrong he still went along with them. Learning about Terry's murder was his last chance for redemption - had he decided that he couldn't "look the other way" anymore then he would have redeemed himself and survived.
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Post by acc on Sept 26, 2008 23:56:31 GMT -5
I concur with all of those points, electroshockblues; Lem was no saint, and despite his comparatively strong conscience, he did choose to "look the other way"--indeed, his greatest reason for burning the money in 3x14 All In was ultimately to protect his "family." That his conscience had been devastated from going along with Vic lying to Tavon, holding the young Armenian woman in his arms, and O'Brien and Diagur among other items in the previous episode and others only helped to highlight the fear behind his actions.
Terrific point that Lem would believe Shane had been ordered to kill him by Vic. I often think of Lem's statement near the end of 3x15 On Tilt: "...You guys scared the shit out of me bringing me out here."
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Post by F*ckernando on Sept 27, 2008 3:43:28 GMT -5
I concur with all of those points, electroshockblues; Lem was no saint, and despite his comparatively strong conscience, he did choose to "look the other way"--indeed, his greatest reason for burning the money in 3x14 All In was ultimately to protect his "family." again.....THAT IS season 3....the greatest season ever made....and THAT ALSO are the royal WRITERS of the show.......when I look back at the entire show....I'm f**kin amazed of how they developed the entire ARC of the show....absolutely believable.....dynamic and REAL storyline...yeea.....I'm talkin this NOW....at 7x04-Genocide...... for the record.. yeea
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