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Post by jimmycracker on Jan 10, 2006 17:58:05 GMT -5
But it's not that black and white. It wouldn't be realistic to push Dutch that far. He's too good natured.
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Post by xanthais on Jan 10, 2006 19:07:04 GMT -5
I dunno, I could see them going for the "going too far into the mind of a killer" thing. But I don't see it happening over the course of what's probably going to be the last season. Dutch is such a "good boy" that it'd only work if it's really drawn out.
As for Terri and IAD.....I too don't think Vic's gonna just up and tell anyone that he killed Terri. There'd have to be a damn good reason for it, and now that he and Shane are tight again, I don't see it coming out. If anything, Vic would have told Lem and Ronnie in S4 when he and Shane were on the outs. Kinda like a "Hey guys, here's what went down. I'm telling you this in case Shane tries to use it on me."
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Post by Blanket Party on Jan 10, 2006 19:37:36 GMT -5
Vic would never admit it. This is true. But I doubt Kavanaugh's gonna go up to Vic and say, "I know you did it! Admit it!" In the words of Dutch, it's not going to make him spontaneously confess.
He'll press Lem. Lem's part of the Strike Team, it would make sense if Kavanaugh thought that Lem knew something. Maybe Kavanaugh will press Lem, and see that Lem doesn't know anything.
Maybe this will get Lem thinking, because we know from Season 3 that Shane brought it up briefly but cryptically. Maybe Lem will do some investigating of his own, and if HE finds out that Vic murdered Terry, he'll go back to IAD.
Or maybe Kavanaugh will move on to Ronnie. Once he sees that Ronnie doesn't know anything, the obvious next step is Shane.
See, Shane DOES know something, and we know from early in Season 1 that he wasn't necessarily "down" with killing Terry. Now, it's been years since the incident and Shane's probably put it behind him, but Shane's got a lot to loose, now - a wife and child. Who knows how Kavanaugh might use that if he thinks that Shane knows something?
Then again, I don't know how it's going to play out...I'm only speculating. I think this has potential to be a mind-blowing storyline, and it makes perfect sense to me that they're revisiting it.
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Post by chupacabranj on Jan 11, 2006 8:42:48 GMT -5
I know we love Vic and all, but we can't write off Terry's death so easily. Terry, like Vic and Shane, was a cop. Unlike Margos, who was a true bad guy, who targeted Vic and the guys for death (making it personal), Terry was doing his job (nothing personal), which is to catch bad cops. One bad cop smears everyone in the house, which is why you want to get him out ASAP. Terry seemed to be a good guy. He was not planting evidence on Vic and the ST, he was not making false reports. He doing his job, trying to catch bad guys, but the bad guys got him first. Vic, just like anyone else who commits murder, must pay for his crime.
Having said that, knowing Vic the way we know him now, I find it hard to believe that he would kill a fellow "clean" cop. Look how he dealt with Tavon, who was obviously a plant. He diverted his attention away from the money train, shielded him from Shane. I can't see Vic killing another cop (hell, he wouldn't even let Shane shoot Gilroy, and he really deserved to get capped!). But he's changed since the first episode, maybe he acted "out of character" when he shot Terry and has been haunted by it since. Maybe that's where the "concious is a killer" tagline for this season comes from.
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Post by Blanket Party on Jan 11, 2006 9:15:25 GMT -5
Look how he dealt with Tavon, who was obviously a plant. Good post, and I agree with you for most of it, except this line. I don't think Tavon was a plant at all. If I remember correctly, Vic hand-picked Tavon, and Tavon was then approved by Aceveda, and Vic then approved Aceveda's approval. Yeah, Vic kept Tavon out of the loop on the Money Train, but that was primarily because a.) they started to hatch the Money Train scheme before Tavon came aboard, and b.) he was a new guy and they couldn't be sure if they could trust him. In the few episodes that Tavon "rolled" with the Strike Team, I never saw anything that indicated him as a plant to me. He refused to give any dirt to Lanie Kellis, and there were a few times we saw that he was willing to a little bit beyond the law to get things done. I think that, if Tavon were still around now and the Strike Team was still dirty (they've tried to go clean since the end of Season 3), that he'd be in the thick of things. He might not be down with doing things like stealing drugs or money, but the other things that the Strike Team would do - rules broken to keep the streets safer - I think Tavon would be all for it.
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Post by blade on Jan 11, 2006 10:42:48 GMT -5
I gotta say, it just doesnt sit right. Only Vic and Shane know the truth, and even if Shane turned on Vic it would still be one man's word against the other. And if the plan is to have Lem wear a wire and try to get Vic to admit it to him, let's not forget that Vic never told the other ST members about the way he killed Margos (he told them that Margos went for a gun), so its HIGHLY unlikely that he's ever going to admit to shooting Terry. I really dont know how the storyline is going to play out, but I just cant see Vic telling Lem (for whatever reason) that he shot Terry. It seems to me that Vic's gotten away with killing Terry, and it kinda seems unrealistic to open it up again. Cheers, CletusVanDamme Im pretty sure Lem knows that vic killed terry because i remember when they were at the funeral Lem was breaking down and shane had to calm him down
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Post by electroshockblues on Jan 11, 2006 11:13:31 GMT -5
I'm afraid that you're wrong. Lem does not know about Terry getting killed. It was Shane who was breaking down at the funeral and Vic who was trying to calm him down.
Also, in a late S3 episode Lem brings up Terry's death and from what he says its obvious that he doesn't know that Vic killed him.
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Post by chupacabranj on Jan 11, 2006 11:53:01 GMT -5
Look how he dealt with Tavon, who was obviously a plant. I don't think Tavon was a plant at all. If I remember correctly, Vic hand-picked Tavon, and Tavon was then approved by Aceveda, and Vic then approved Aceveda's approval. I'm pretty sure, but I won't swear to it until I watch the episode again, that Aceveda forced Tavon on the team because Aceveda told Vic that it didn't look good for a bunch of white cops to be busting down doors in a prodominantly black and hispanic neighborhood. As for Tavon being a plant. I misstated what I meant. He was treated with suspicion by the team (mostly Vic and Shane), and Aceveda was hoping to use him to get some dirt, but he proved to be loyal to the ST in the end. Thanks for replying.
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Post by blade on Jan 11, 2006 12:02:55 GMT -5
I'm afraid that you're wrong. Lem does not know about Terry getting killed. It was Shane who was breaking down at the funeral and Vic who was trying to calm him down. Also, in a late S3 episode Lem brings up Terry's death and from what he says its obvious that he doesn't know that Vic killed him. yea uur probably right...i was watching that episode pretty late. i must have been tired. o btw, does neone know wut happened to tavon? i remember he got in that car accident. then i went on vacation and missed like 8 episodes...lol.
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Post by Blanket Party on Jan 11, 2006 19:00:07 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure, but I won't swear to it until I watch the episode again, that Aceveda forced Tavon on the team because Aceveda told Vic that it didn't look good for a bunch of white cops to be busting down doors in a prodominantly black and hispanic neighborhood. You're right about this. In Season 2, the entire reason they brought on a new team member was because Lanie and Aceveda felt that it was bad policy to have a white team busting down doors in a widely minority area. Vic accepted it, on two terms - 1.) that Shane stayed on the team (at the time Aceveda wanted him transferred) and 2.) that it was Vic, not Aceveda, who hand-picked the new member. I don't know about Aceveda looking to use Tavon for dirt, though. I suppose Aceveda assumed he could eventually, but it was never expressely stated through any of the dialogue.
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Post by Dead Armenian on Jan 11, 2006 19:54:01 GMT -5
When Lanie tried to cozy up to Tavon for dirt on the ST, Tavon sarcastically led her on with a line about having witnessed Vic double park or something like that.
Don't think the head injury is going to change things - poor Tavon was loyal to the team and probably doesn't remember anything worth ratting anyway.
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