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Post by stovetop on Apr 17, 2006 18:44:48 GMT -5
I dont think season 4 was that bad. I actualy liked it alot. I dont know why many people hate this season. My favorite season 4 moment was when that Russian was about to shoot Shane and then Lem dropped him with the shotgun. I think that was ep 4.11 or 4.12. Not sure
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Post by striketeamwashere on Apr 17, 2006 19:00:03 GMT -5
Im with axman Trechiak exploding was a good scene. As was the first scene of the season with Scooby and the dog, and having Phillips get angry but then Monica chill him out.
stovetop-I dont think people hate S4, It is just commonly accepted of the least good(dont want to say worst because that sounds negative)season out of the 5.
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Post by stovetop on Apr 18, 2006 19:36:42 GMT -5
Understood. Least good is a good way to put it. I liked that scene too with Philips and Scooby with the dog he just shot. "Cmon Roy he had a peice, he was gonna use it" Or somthing like that.
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Post by electroshockblues on Apr 21, 2006 5:35:13 GMT -5
You're forgetting that when Aceveda "sold Vic out" he also stepped forward and took responsibility for the Strike Team's actions, reccomending to the chief that he be fired. Besides, I see nothing particularly bad about "selling out" a guy like Vic.
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Post by mwk ~aka~ Witchykitty on Apr 21, 2006 19:14:55 GMT -5
Now, I have no problem with hookers, but it's a pretty shitty thing to do when you're married (even though Aceveda's wife is a treacherous bitch). Remember when Aceveda's wife confronted him about being distant and not coming home very much? She got nasty and told him to do whatever he needed to do to get over the rape. It's still no excuse, but I guess he did as he was told.
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Post by SMOKE-DOG on Apr 23, 2006 1:50:31 GMT -5
you're right about that - Aceveda now has a murder on his hands just like Vic - Aceveda is all about himself now and will now probably do anything to protect his political image - he's actually starting to accumulate as many skeletons in his closet as Vic but at least Vic and the ST have worked pretty hard to cover their tracks - Aceveda is in panic mode and is getting careless I may be wrong but doesn't Aceveda have at least 2 bodies to his name his attacker and his attackers buddy who took the incriminating photo. He has always been all about himself.
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Post by electroshockblues on Apr 23, 2006 4:33:54 GMT -5
The guy who took the photo (Ricky) shot at Aceveda. Aceveda killed him in self defence.
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Post by SMOKE-DOG on Apr 23, 2006 16:34:08 GMT -5
The guy who took the photo (Ricky) shot at Aceveda. Aceveda killed him in self defence. But it was premeditated though. If I recall correctly he was following them.
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Post by eekay on Feb 17, 2007 15:41:32 GMT -5
The guy who took the photo (Ricky) shot at Aceveda. Aceveda killed him in self defence. But it was premeditated though. If I recall correctly he was following them.
Yes, he was following them, but if he was following with the intent to kill them, he would have killed Juan also. After all, he had the perfect opportunity (which was one of many "favorite moments" for me in Season 3: Aceveda with a gun pointed at a defenseless Juan, hesitating to pull the trigger for what seems like forever, hearing the Strike Team approach and still hesitating, then finally letting Juan be arrested and choosing to take his revenge in his own way. Did he "wuss out" in not shooting Juan? Was he fighting with his own conscience, not to shoot a man in cold blood no matter what that man had done? Or did hearing Vic's voice remind him that shooting Juan was something that Vic would do, and that taking his revenge in this way would make him no better than Vic? Really complex scene executed brilliantly with hardly any dialogue or action.)
Good moments in S4: The whole "men's room" sequence; Vic deputizing Las Profetas to search for the escaped rapist ("All you said was 'flowers', man"); Vic twirling his gun and waiting while the German Shepherd popped one of the rapist's testicles; Vic "reuniting" the Strike Team over the videotape of Dutch's painful car ride with his date; Dutch and the String Theorist. There are others. This season wasn't as bad (or "not good") as a lot of people seem to think. I think the disunity with the Strike Team (and between Dutch and Claudette, to an extent) threw a lot of people out of their comfort zone when they set to watch it (including me). So many bizarre and unexpected things happen in this show anyway, it's nice to have some constants at least --even if it's something like "the Strike Team will always band together to make fun of Dutch".
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Post by chemikalman on Feb 17, 2007 17:07:41 GMT -5
3: Aceveda with a gun pointed at a defenseless Juan, hesitating to pull the trigger for what seems like forever, hearing the Strike Team approach and still hesitating, then finally letting Juan be arrested and choosing to take his revenge in his own way. Did he "wuss out" in not shooting Juan? Was he fighting with his own conscience, not to shoot a man in cold blood no matter what that man had done? Or did hearing Vic's voice remind him that shooting Juan was something that Vic would do, and that taking his revenge in this way would make him no better than Vic? Really complex scene executed brilliantly with hardly any dialogue or action.)I think you're giving Aceveda a lot more credit than I would. I think he was just afraid he might get caught. I would have to watch the scene again, though, to see if my theory is credible ... i.e., if Juan was defenseless when Aceveda had the gun on him. I agree, those were great scenes, esp. the video of Dutch. He's so full of himself that I love seeing Dutch be the butt of jokes. That disunity is just another thing that makes this show so incredible ... not only does it take us by surprise, it adds realism. Whose family or relationship with even their favorite colleague or co-worker is completely without strife?
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Post by eekay on Feb 18, 2007 0:03:00 GMT -5
Juan's gun was out of reach on a shelf in his kitchen. He could have tried to break for it, but was at least a couple of steps away and Aceveda could easily have shot him (and gotten away with it, if that was his primary concern as you say).
I think that Aceveda, if he had wanted to, could have shot Juan in cold blood and then placed Juan's gun on the floor near his hand so as to make it look as if Juan was trying to kill him (kind of like Vic did with Margos). He had plenty of time to shoot before he heard the Strike Team closing in, and even afterwards if he moved quickly enough.
Here's my extremely unauthorized psychoanalysis of David Aceveda, for whom electroshockblues and I seem to be the only ones with any sympathy: He seems to be driven primarily by a very unforgiving sense of right and wrong. Which includes, by the way, how he views himself. I think that he recognizes that there are some dark aspects of his personality, but he has convinced himself that if he suppresses those qualities as much as he can, or at least uses them to further "right" causes (or to stop other "wrong" people less in control of themselves than he is), then it's the same thing as being "right". Which it's not. He's like a guy walking around in a really expensive designer suit that makes people really envious but just doesn't fit him. He's not happy; the people who work for him do not look up to him; the people he'd like to stop, don't; he has achieved some political success but can't even pretend to enjoy it, or relate to his new constituency. I just feel really bad for the guy.
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Post by chemikalman on Feb 18, 2007 0:25:57 GMT -5
Here's my extremely unauthorized psychoanalysis of David Aceveda, for whom electroshockblues and I seem to be the only ones with any sympathy: He seems to be driven primarily by a very unforgiving sense of right and wrong. Which includes, by the way, how he views himself. I think that he recognizes that there are some dark aspects of his personality, but he has convinced himself that if he suppresses those qualities as much as he can, or at least uses them to further "right" causes (or to stop other "wrong" people less in control of themselves than he is), then it's the same thing as being "right". Which it's not. Up to here (I cut it off just before the designer suits), you could also be describing Vic, as well, could you not?
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Post by eekay on Feb 18, 2007 0:28:20 GMT -5
Vic Mackey has a very forgiving sense of right and wrong. Makes all the difference in the world.
Not to say that he and Aceveda don't encounter similar difficulties in their lives --but Vic starts the day way more comfortable in his skin (or suit ) than Aceveda does in his. It makes a difference.
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Post by chemikalman on Feb 18, 2007 1:50:00 GMT -5
Vic Mackey has a very forgiving sense of right and wrong. Makes all the difference in the world. Holy Moses! Two little letters difference, "un." Now you'll probably argue with me that "if" is not the biggest two-letter word in English, that it's "un." Except that "un" isn't a word. But, all right, all right. Much as I hate to admit it, you're right (j/k). When you consider all the times Vic has forgiven Shane. Is there anyone he hasn't forgiven? Hell, he even forgave Terry ... well, he put a bullet in his head, but he forgave him, I'm sure. And is there anyone David did forgive? Hmmm. No one comes to mind. What about Aurora? Now there's someone I wouldn't forgive if I were him ... not EVER for the way she treated him after his ordeal with Juan. On a tangent, I've been watching The Unit. Wow, what a great show, IMO. Anyway, David's ho from S04 plays a major role in that show. I just can't get over her face. She's got one of the strangest facial structures I've ever seen with that combination of cheeks and mouth. She's not ugly, she's just strange ... looks like an alien.
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Post by eekay on Feb 18, 2007 2:20:37 GMT -5
Vic also "forgave" Connie for her lifestyle, and all the times she screwed up; Lem for burning the money; Gilroy for being a stupid backstabbing drunken idiot; Julien for almost ruining his [Vic's] career in S1. . .the list goes on.
Just as importantly, Vic forgives himself. I don't think that Aceveda does. I think it makes him sick that he identifies in nature more with Vic than with someone truly "good" like, say, Claudette; but he somehow also got Claudette's very strict and "unforgiving" sense of right and wrong, and it eats at him, while Vic gets to act like Vic and sleep just fine at night.
I always thought Abby Brammel (actress who plays Sara the call girl) was a rather strange-looking chick. Alien, as you say. Sort of like E.T.'s hot cousin from Phoenix. Her performance in S4 is hard to judge --does she sound fake because she's a prostitute, and everything she says is fake anyway? Or is that just how Abby Brammel talks?
Hey! I am now officially a Punk! #yahoo#
Never thought I'd be so pleased and proud to be a punk. . .
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Post by chemikalman on Feb 18, 2007 2:31:36 GMT -5
Just as importantly, Vic forgives himself. I don't think that Aceveda does. I think it makes him sick that he identifies in nature more with Vic than with someone truly "good" like, say, Claudette; but he somehow also got Claudette's very strict and "unforgiving" sense of right and wrong, and it eats at him, while Vic gets to act like Vic and sleep just fine at night. Take a deep breath, I think you are right on the mark ... beautifully stated. Now don't go thinkin' I'm gonna start agreeing with everything you say! Let me be the first to say congratulations, punk. ;D
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Post by gardockisbeard on Feb 18, 2007 23:03:58 GMT -5
dont wanna throw off the discussion, but just adding in a great season 4 moment:
lem taking out 3 or 4 guys all by himself in the season finale, incredibly intense
ok, now back to acevada / vic's vices!
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Post by cletusvanman69 on Feb 22, 2007 9:04:55 GMT -5
I agree, Lem taking out those guys on his own was awesome!! Lem was a beast! I was panicking for a mo, my girlfriend, who loves Lem was peering thru her fingers at that scene. Also, it goes without saying that the Vic/Shane showdown was a classic scene, although I knew Vic would help his 'little bro'. They're blood brothers after ALL the shit they've been up to. And a personal favourite of mine is when Shane confronts Antwon in the interrogation room. I was SO tense watching that!!
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Post by gardockisbeard on Mar 11, 2007 16:58:59 GMT -5
o yea i forgot about shane / antwon, shane kept waiting to reach for his gun in that scene, haha. also a small moment is shane and vic talking to mitchell's 2nd in command, and shane says that killing your friends before they can kill you is what seperates cops from criminals. a nice piece of foreshadowing, imo
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Post by danimal12483 on Mar 25, 2007 19:12:37 GMT -5
i really liked when monica told aceveda off in his office. i've been waitin for someone to lay into him besides vic.
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