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Post by murt1987 on May 16, 2007 14:46:58 GMT -5
Solid episode, I very happy with the direction they're leading Shane down. What Im confused about is Shane's involvement with the Armenians(at least I think it was the Armenians)? What does he want from them? Protection??? A way out? ?? What? Also grovestud, I think your spot on about with both points about why Hernan was missing. It could be either one in my opinion but I'd go with option no.1 . I just dont trust that developer guy, Aceveda is gonna get himself in real trouble with that guy. Solid B++
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Post by acc on May 16, 2007 15:54:00 GMT -5
I suppose I'm going to sound like something of a jerk but I just have to say it again (kind of like with episodes such as 4x07 or 5x02 and a various assortment of other episodes): if an episode is deliberately made as a "set-up episode," as the majority of us believe, why dock it points simply because of that? I've said this before on "that other forum from back in the day" but, here I go again, I just think that if a set-up episode does exactly what it's aiming to do, it should receive strong marks. I guess it is, actually, but I'm just making a point that comparing Chasing Ghosts and Exiled to one another is kind of like apples and oranges, despite that they still have all the same characters and such since it's the same TV series. With that, I end my little pointless rant.
I give the episode an A-. In terms of writing, it was practically on a par with last week--indeed, it may have been just as strong in this way, just not as explosive.
Good to see Kurt Sutter and Scott Rosenbaum hammer out an episode together. Reminds one of Dragonchasers and Two Days of Blood.
I agree that the land developer of David's is probably trouble and he may have tipped off the Salvadorans about the Federal mole--but, that does seem almost like an echo of the Korean contact of David's in Riceburner, who tipped off the Korean mob killer to the cops' movements. Ah, but who cares? They're all corrupt in LA! :-)
Shane reaching out to the Armenian mob was given just the right amount of punch and poignancy when the camera looked over the Iraqi, dead, at the gas station. (Danny called him a "white male," though, I guess not knowing otherwise...?)
Easily the lightest episode of the season with regards to Dutch/Steve/Tina, etceteras, and that's fine. I did like Steve talking about his college escapades and Dutch asking for Steve to write down his tips about women. A very different kind of Shield location, that upper-end area.
I never suspected Gilroy's wife's return. That's the genius of this show, in terms of excitement. You may think you know all the writers' moves but you don't. They'll surprise you in that kind of way and they really threw a great curveball here.
Claudette's knowledge about all of this has me on the edge of my seat. I almost take back what I said last week about Claudette not doing anything in the sense that now she's going to be playing a better game with Vic/Shane/Kevin (I couldn't help but watch the preview for next week--yikes, that looks intense!). Her dialogue with Nancy was great and a nice insight to both women, which, much like Nancy's appearance to begin with, was a surprise for me. Claudette's been kind of underplayed the last few episodes, since Kavanaugh's downfall, but I sense a gearing-up of her role on the show and I like it. And you could just sense her "dying" in terms of letting three of the six killers go free. Great work by CCH Pounder, who is doing a marvelous job of conveying her character's slow, steady, irrevocable downward fall in terms of her moral compass being gradually shifted, less and less in a black-and-white direction and more towards doing things Vic--and Kevin's--way.
Kevin's turning out to be a great addition. Julien's "Godspeed" moment was great--AND WHAT A SHOT BY DEAN WHITE THERE! Wow, that was just magnificent. That shot of the sun, with the Byz Lat captain getting tackled by Julien... what a tremendous shot and sequence.
A great episode in its own way, even if things *are* being set-up. Let them be set-up because you just know they'll be kicked down real soon.
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Post by Inside Man on May 16, 2007 16:42:20 GMT -5
The old If anything happens to me, all that incriminating evidence will surface gambit has been around for as long as people have been doing dirty deeds on film. However, it always comes at a time of great revelation and usually ends up playing like a convenient out--Standard Cliched Writing Trick #18.
It's a good thing Kurt Sutter & Scott Rosenbaum seem to recognize this, because actually seeing Shane write, organize, and package Vic's sins at the beginning of the episode added a whole hell of a lot of weight to this worn-out plot device. We know he's not bluffing and by the end of the episode, Vic knows it too. Good stuff.
The Latino-on-Latino angle did prove to be confusing the first time around. At first, I had the same bad thoughts about Vic giving the Byz Lat boss the same burner phone on which he received a call from Hernan. But Hernan is in the Salvadoran crew and it's not as if Santi, the Byz Lat guy, would recognize the phone number. And I seriously doubt if Vic took the time to store Hernan's number in the phone under the tidy little name HERNAN. The only real problem I have is that Vic actually went so far as to say Throwaway Phone on both ocassions, as if we're supposed to make the connection. If that's supposed to mean something, I'd rather it was more subtle. I mean, 95% of us knew that was Vic's secondary phone because we pay attention. This is a curious situation, and I don't know what to make of it.
The way Hernan's cover kept getting exposed almost approached the comical. I was suprised that Vic spilled it to Claudette in front of all the Detectives. I was shaking my head when Claudette told David, and I just knew Asseveda couldn't resist telling his contractor buddy. And this was in, like, the first 15 minutes. Need to know basis. Vic, if this guy's dead, everyone helped signed his death warrant.
Bitchy Mara is back! Yay!
A solid episode, I really liked it. I watched it again on the way into work, so I can vote B+ with a clean conscience.
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Post by Inside Man on May 16, 2007 16:58:58 GMT -5
I agree that the land developer of David's is probably trouble and he may have tipped off the Salvadorans about the Federal mole--but, that does seem almost like an echo of the Korean contact of David's in Riceburner, who tipped off the Korean mob killer to the cops' movements. Ah, but who cares? They're all corrupt in LA! :-) This is one of the other dilemmas I face with the nonappearance of Hernan. The developer knowing about him certainly gives the appearance of trouble, but I remembered "Riceburner," too. That would be strongly reminiscent of theDaniel Dae-Kim (now a regular on LOST) character tipping off the Koreans. Too similar for comfort, in my opinion. Claudette's knowledge about all of this has me on the edge of my seat. I almost take back what I said last week about Claudette not doing anything in the sense that now she's going to be playing a better game with Vic/Shane/Kevin (I couldn't help but watch the preview for next week--yikes, that looks intense!). Her dialogue with Nancy was great and a nice insight to both women, which, much like Nancy's appearance to begin with, was a surprise for me. Claudette's been kind of underplayed the last few episodes, since Kavanaugh's downfall, but I sense a gearing-up of her role on the show and I like it. And you could just sense her "dying" in terms of letting three of the six killers go free. Great work by CCH Pounder, who is doing a marvelous job of conveying her character's slow, steady, irrevocable downward fall in terms of her moral compass being gradually shifted, less and less in a black-and-white direction and more towards doing things Vic--and Kevin's--way. Oh, I couldn't agree more. She absolutely hated to agree with the '3 killers is enough' plan. Kevin's turning out to be a great addition. Julien's "Godspeed" moment was great--AND WHAT A SHOT BY DEAN WHITE THERE! Wow, that was just magnificent. That shot of the sun, with the Byz Lat captain getting tackled by Julien... what a tremendous shot and sequence. What an awesome scene that was. Vic's "Godspeed" quip has been submitted to Chem for a Best Line spot. Best laugh I've had all season. AND YES WHAT A SHOT BY DEAN WHITE, but we're talking about a different shot! I loved the one looking down the stairs, seeing Julian the "Black Blur" run past the opening. It was so LA, so Shield, I almost experienced sexual gratification.
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Post by jwc53531 on May 17, 2007 1:29:14 GMT -5
I suppose I'm going to sound like something of a jerk but I just have to say it again (kind of like with episodes such as 4x07 or 5x02 and a various assortment of other episodes): if an episode is deliberately made as a "set-up episode," as the majority of us believe, why dock it points simply because of that? I've said this before on "that other forum from back in the day" but, here I go again, I just think that if a set-up episode does exactly what it's aiming to do, it should receive strong marks. I guess it is, actually, but I'm just making a point that comparing Chasing Ghosts and Exiled to one another is kind of like apples and oranges, despite that they still have all the same characters and such since it's the same TV series. With that, I end my little pointless rant. I give the episode an A-. In terms of writing, it was practically on a par with last week--indeed, it may have been just as strong in this way, just not as explosive. agree 100% - I'm not commenting on the episode specifically because I can't separate what I know is coming from what is revealed in Exiled - still, it's one of the best 'set-up' eps ever and having Katey Sagal show up was the icing on the cake - just cuz there's no big payoff at the end shouldn't be cause for knocking down the ep a grade - it's just as much about how it fits into the totality of the season and what it foretells for the future - what makes the set-up work is how smooth and seamless the flow is and how it doesn't waste effort on scenes that don't serve the purpose of moving along the bigger story - this was really crisp writing and great acting from everyone, especially CCH - she's no longer the self-rightous detective of S1-S5 - she's making one compromise after another and letting go those three shooters in order to have three others basically killed says alot about what she has finally become - Julien too - I'm amazed at how the writers have managed to have Vic corrupt everyone around him even as they are trying to shove him out the door - an A- from me too
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Post by aussieangel on May 17, 2007 1:36:29 GMT -5
I gave an A to this ep. It is just building and building.
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Post by chemikalman on May 17, 2007 9:26:18 GMT -5
I decided to post my opinion before looking at the other comments. I had a chance to re-watch "Exiled" last night and concluded that this was my least favorite episode of the season, hands down (or should I say arms down?). Painful as it is to say this for me, I give it a C. From the very beginning when I had to try to figure out what the hell Hernan was saying, to the confusing and unrealistic storylines, to the many inconsistencies, I just didn't like it. This ep had more holes in it than a spaghetti strainer. I hope they kill Hernan so I won't have to hear him deliver his lines sounding like his mouth has been stitched together or he had a case of botox gone wild.
Re the storylines: I found it uncredible that the Salvadorans would hack a bunch of Mexicans to pieces just to "send a message" that they want the Mexicans "to share."
The editing on the gang sweep was very poorly done. I couldn't figure out why Hernan would be staying in the same house as Santi until I watched carefully and realized that they were sweeping two different houses. The way it was filmed, especially going from one house to the other and then back to the first -- I just didn't like it.
I thought it was unrealistic that the Mexican (or whatever he is) developer would act outraged at the idea of the gang sweep and call it a "siege." Oh, yeah, like the poor inhabitants of Farmington were not aware that there was a gang element in the hood and their national pride would be hurt after two brutal attacks.
Mara saying that they had to get out of LA made sense, but Shane saying he will just transfer to vice didn't. Um, hello, still the LAPD, right?
What was the point of Ronnie delivering the password to Hernan during the sweep. He and the ST already knew Hernan was working with them and that Vic was gonna end up interrogating him.
Back to the gang war, Hernan saying there is no peace without the Byz-Lats "paying a price." Um, excuse me, the Byz-Lats had to pay a price? Like the Salvadorans were not expecting retribution after dismembering a dozen Mexicans (plus one arm, ha). What the Byz-Lats did was extremely kind in comparison. Wouldn't it make more sense in both cases to hunt down known gang leaders? I wonder how much research the writers did on this story. Instead of showing the developer being offended by the sweep I would be offended if I were a Hispanic viewer of this episode.
Also, why did it take Julien of all people to make the observation that bringing in Hernan along with his bosses as part of a sting would look fishy?
The I.C.E. guy (what the hell is the I.C.E., anyway?) coming in and acting like he's in charge and then flip-flopping on the spot. What was that? Hernan's disappearance was speculated by some (I did read some of the early posts) to be due to Vic handing Santi his throw-away cell. I said that Vic wouldn't be that stupid, but that's the only thing that makes sense.
And, boy, I never knew Shane had such organization skills! ... neatly stacking and sorting his notes (and even photo reproductions) on his motel room bed. He should apply for a job as the Chief's personal assistant! ;D Oh, by the way, how did he get all that stuff together so quickly, especially the photos of Gilroy? ... he just happened to have them in his motel room, or were they stashed away in his house and he snuck in at night while Mara was sleeping?
The murder of the Iraqi gas station proprietor was kind of strange. And having pumped gas in CA I don't think the nozzle would have stayed in his mouth--those things are heavy. Plus, what happened to the black hose used to trap gasoline vapor? Maybe the killer(s) said "hey, man, we gotta cut this thing off so we can send a message"? Hallmark ought to come out with a special series of cards for gangbangers "When you care enough to brutalize with the very best." They could have attached one to the gas nozzle.
Maybe a C is too high, now that I think of it.
There were parts I liked. I liked the way Vic handled Mara ... not reacting or giving away anything when she said she knows about Lem. This, the same Vic who apparently forgot Hernan's phone number might have been on the cell phone? The Billings - Dutch comedy was good again and, even though it seemed to take Julien way too long to catch Santi, the scene of him knocking Santi across the hood of the car was good. The last scene, between Vic and Shane was also good. The Nancy Gilroy - Claudette scene was okay. Seeing Tina put the yellow crime scene tape made me think "now there's a job perfectly suited for Tina!". I also liked the irony of showing the gangbangers take part in an actual gangbang, ha!
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Post by Inside Man on May 17, 2007 15:59:49 GMT -5
I keep forgetting to say...I think it's wonderful that Shawn and Crew continue to give Scott Brazil that Executive Producer credit at the end of each episode. That makes me feel good.
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Post by Strike Team 4 Life on May 18, 2007 0:15:40 GMT -5
I keep forgetting to say...I think it's wonderful that Shawn and Crew continue to give Scott Brazil that Executive Producer credit at the end of each episode. That makes me feel good. Did he actually produce them? He might have??? I gave the episode a "B". Nancy Gilroy ALMOST bumped it up to an A...
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Post by Inside Man on May 18, 2007 8:55:02 GMT -5
I keep forgetting to say...I think it's wonderful that Shawn and Crew continue to give Scott Brazil that Executive Producer credit at the end of each episode. That makes me feel good. Did he actually produce them? He might have??? I gave the episode a "B". Nancy Gilroy ALMOST bumped it up to an A... A number of the articles I read about Scott Brazil's death said that he worked on the show right up to his last day. I remember that it was early in the preproduction of Season 6, I don't know if they'd actually filmed anything yet. If so, it was early episodes. Something about the 4th episode rings a faint bell, but I can't say for sure. All I know is that it's touching to see them continuing to give him the credit he deserves. I know he's looking down on this season and smiling.
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Post by chemikalman on May 18, 2007 9:32:45 GMT -5
I don't think they had begun filming yet, but I'm pretty sure they must have been in the pre-production phase--possibly nothing more than the writers getting together to plan S06. Maybe I'll ask Adam something about that -- it's getting close to his wedding day and he probably doesn't have much time for any too involved question-wise. Hey, I can ask about the wedding, too! I also am gonna send Adam the wedding cards IAR and I have been working on. Well, of course, I mean I was the advisor and IAR was the creative wizard. ;D
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Post by Inside Man on May 18, 2007 12:42:24 GMT -5
I know you'll "sign" those cards from everyone here at the Rap.
That would be cool if you could ask Adam that, Chem. Scott and his work are and always will be an essential piece in the fabric of The Shield.
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Post by jadedgirl on May 18, 2007 22:50:41 GMT -5
Sorry I'm late with this folks but I've been busy. Also, I'll jsut state the grade since everyone else made my points for me. I'm giving this a B-. Good but not great.
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Post by -|E|- on May 21, 2007 2:25:34 GMT -5
I gave this one an A. I mean, Kurt wrote it.... ;D
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Post by chemikalman on May 21, 2007 7:25:11 GMT -5
I gave this one an A. I mean, Kurt wrote it.... ;D Now our earlier chat about this episode is suddenly made clear.
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Post by electroshockblues on Jun 6, 2007 3:09:27 GMT -5
Another thing I (and I'm sure a lot of other people) have been thinking about is "why of all people, did Shane choose the Armenians?". It bothered me a lot at first, but on reflection it kind of makes sense, according to Shane's logic at least. There's no way he could go running to the one-niners or their rivals Spook Street after the whole Antwon thing, so thats the major black gangs out. As far as the Mexicans and the Salvadorans go the whole barn is tangled up with them over the San Marcos killings, so Shane wouldn't want to get caught in the spotlight there. What about the Russians? They would never trust a cop claiming to be dirty so soon after what happened in 'Trophy' (5x05). The Korean gangs? Far too insular to trust a white cop. The Armenians, however, have been off the radar completely since the end of Season 3 (well over a year in terms of the show's timeline), and the Money Train issue seems to have faded from their memory from Shane's perspective.
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