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Post by xer0signal on Apr 25, 2007 15:45:13 GMT -5
Just out of curiousity, are you rappies a bit pissed off at the fact that a newbie is joining THE SHIELD? (Wondering about the low grade factor) Another Question: Who wrote this episode? I think if they were to have removed the scene where Corrine explains the dream at the beginning most of the D's and F's would turn to B's and C's. That scene really seemed bring out a negative reaction. Elizabeth Craft & Sarah Fain wrote the episode. well, regarding the strike team, the entire episode revolved around that dream. so for it to have received a higher grade, they would have had to take out that entire storyline. but my F grade also involves other factors. mostly in the writing. secondly dutch turning into a lame character. it was cool at first to see billings rag on him, but it only took two/three episodes of it to get old to me. and i still don't buy that claudette would lie like that. juilen getting added to the strike team seems, to me, like just a way to keep people interested in a forgotten character. danny milking herself in the viewing room when there's clearly a working women's room. lines like "what am i, omniscient?" and "i know that two of his guys got dead". it's one thing after the other with this episode. i'm grading it so poorly because, like most people, are saying, it ruined the perfect streak this show has had for 5 straight seasons. i've loved every episode and would give them all A's, but this one is inexcusable. it's not even like this one just wasn't as good as the rest. it's a truly bad episode. i even think clark johnson did a shitty job with it considering a lot of people (including myself) couldn't even understand half of what was going on with the strike team/1-niner story. i'm not letting it ruin my view of the show as a whole, and i'm just as excited to catch next week's episode as i've been all along, but i'll forever be pissed about this one.
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Post by -|E|- on Apr 25, 2007 16:01:29 GMT -5
danny milking herself in the viewing room when there's clearly a working women's room. I'm sorry, but expecting a woman to pump breast milk while sitting on the toilet is sickening.... no way would I ever handle my newborn baby's only source of nourishment in a restroom in a police precinct. Any normal working nursing mom would have asked to use the Captain's Office in the first place, not the common observation room. I'm not thrilled that the writers decided to use Danny as comic relief.... showing her yelling at her Spanish speaking babysitter while on a call?! And struggling to keep up with Julien on the street? I mean, the writers of this episode were WOMEN! God, you'd think they'd be at least a little empowering or compassionate. I know they're in "the boys' club" with all those macho writers and maybe they wanted to prove taht their balls are just as big? I dunno, but it was awful. They missed the mark on just about everyone.... Danny is stronger and smarter than that. Claudette isn't that much of a bitch. Dutch isn't QUITE that lame. Billings isn't that big of a sexist ass. Julien isn't that afraid of what the ST thinks of him. Vic wouldn't totally lose it over some banger. I hated this episode.....
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dutch1980
"This one will cut your hands off and then sweetly smile as she asks you to clap louder." -Vic
Posts: 30
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Post by dutch1980 on Apr 25, 2007 16:22:18 GMT -5
danny milking herself in the viewing room when there's clearly a working women's room. I'm sorry, but expecting a woman to pump breast milk while sitting on the toilet is sickening.... no way would I ever handle my newborn baby's only source of nourishment in a restroom in a police precinct. Any normal working nursing mom would have asked to use the Captain's Office in the first place, not the common observation room. I'm not thrilled that the writers decided to use Danny as comic relief.... showing her yelling at her Spanish speaking babysitter while on a call?! And struggling to keep up with Julien on the street? I mean, the writers of this episode were WOMEN! God, you'd think they'd be at least a little empowering or compassionate. I know they're in "the boys' club" with all those macho writers and maybe they wanted to prove taht their balls are just as big? I dunno, but it was awful. They missed the mark on just about everyone.... Danny is stronger and smarter than that. Claudette isn't that much of a bitch. Dutch isn't QUITE that lame. Billings isn't that big of a sexist ass. Julien isn't that afraid of what the ST thinks of him. Vic wouldn't totally lose it over some banger. I hated this episode..... Well said. But you missed one point. Tina transferring out. Perhaps you're not as upset about this as I am. Wait a second... this episode was written by 2 women and it just so happens to be the episode where they transfer Tina?? Very interesting.
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Post by anothershieldfan on Apr 25, 2007 16:25:45 GMT -5
I still don't see what all the fuss is about, I don't think it was that....bad. There were a few angles missing, now that someone brought it up. Vic and the ST are usually cleaning up some mess or involved in something else while they are working the Barn's cases but I don't see how they could of done that when they were against the clock with trying to get to the former bangers and with the New Guy around. Shane was also adrift (working another angle)and Ronnie was with Vic working that case, I really don't see how they could of been working other angles. They can't do the same format every episode, to me that would become trite. I'm really not that interested in Julien or Danny's performance, as with the killing of Lem and this season based on that I am focused on the ST, maybe that's why I didn't notice that. I have been a in-the-closet fan of Dutch in ways and do feel like they are not playing him as well as they could, say like the dude of Law and Order Criminal Intent, I think Dutch could be that good. I still don't think anything less than a C is that accurate.
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Post by Inside Man on Apr 25, 2007 16:46:42 GMT -5
There were two words that got used a lot from the Cast and Crew of The Shield when talking about Season 5 and Lem's death. One was 'tragedy.'
The other was 'Shakespearean.'
Corrine's dream of Lem kinda reminds me of ghosts in some of Shakespeare's works, especially Hamlet. I'm by no means an expert on Shakespeare, but there was a passage in Hamlet where Horatio is concerned that the ghost of Hamlet's father would do harm to Hamlet: What if it tempt you toward the flood, my lord, or to the dreadful summit of the cliff?
I may be reaching, but there may be something to it. Even if there were, it was terribly ham-handed attempt and painfully obvious. If it were meant to echo Shakespeare by using a ghost of Lem, it was too on-the-nose. The whole thing just seemed out of place on The Shield. They do subtlety so well, but not in "The New Guy."
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Post by -|E|- on Apr 25, 2007 17:32:06 GMT -5
You're right, Inside... Tina wouldn't have left that abruptly. And Shane wouldn't actually fall in love with a TEENAGER.
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Post by Nick Mills on Apr 25, 2007 17:48:11 GMT -5
I don't get the 'hate' for this episode. This one is great in terms of acting, dialogue and such. The dream part, while it was truly cheesy in the way it came up and the reaction to it, opened up for a Vic blowup which was excellent. Amazing acting, in my view. The whole purpose is to let the audience believe you are this character and share their emotions. This episode did it for me. I went cold when I skipped to the ending and saw this Vic blowup and walking out with tears running down his face. Powerful stuff. Yes, the dream was cheesy but so what? The Shield isn't perfect and it's not always going to deliver on some things. It wasn't the worst episode in the world but it should open up for the next ones. Hyatt's dialogue was pretty funny too; "I'm Detective Hyatt but you can call me Detective Dyatt" Or "Just imagine me with a puppy in my hand. Gives you a warm fuzzy feeling."
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Post by Scartissue on Apr 25, 2007 18:44:30 GMT -5
I liked this episode but I don't understand the great praise for the last scene when Vic destroyed the waiting room at the hospital. I don't consider throwing things around great acting and my biggest problem with it, was that there didn't seem like a natural build up to his explosion. It all seemed too contrived that Lem ordered these books and that Vic had somehow came to care enough to do everthing he could to protect the X-one niner that loved to read. I guess that's why they needed "the dream" to bridge the gap of Vic caring about an X-thug.
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Post by dtpollitt on Apr 25, 2007 19:04:09 GMT -5
OK, I watched it again. It's definitely my least favorite of all Shield eps, but still... it's a Shield ep. I give it a C- because I have faith that this ep will grow on me. Without faith, it would get an F. Still mad. Unnngggghhhhh people, this was EASILY the best of the season!! How the hell can you not see that? It stretched what we have previously known as THE SHIELD universe - trying new things - with untrodden roads soon to be our new home, and was the three hitter setting up the clean up man and a monster grand slam next week. Wrong, all wrong, people. I'm disappointed no one liked this episode. I'll give more justification shortly.
Dan
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Post by Jan El Señor on Apr 25, 2007 19:43:04 GMT -5
danny milking herself in the viewing room when there's clearly a working women's room. I'm sorry, but expecting a woman to pump breast milk while sitting on the toilet is sickening.... no way would I ever handle my newborn baby's only source of nourishment in a restroom in a police precinct. Any normal working nursing mom would have asked to use the Captain's Office in the first place, not the common observation room. I'm not thrilled that the writers decided to use Danny as comic relief.... showing her yelling at her Spanish speaking babysitter while on a call?! And struggling to keep up with Julien on the street? I mean, the writers of this episode were WOMEN! God, you'd think they'd be at least a little empowering or compassionate. I know they're in "the boys' club" with all those macho writers and maybe they wanted to prove taht their balls are just as big? I dunno, but it was awful. They missed the mark on just about everyone.... Danny is stronger and smarter than that. Claudette isn't that much of a bitch. Dutch isn't QUITE that lame. Billings isn't that big of a sexist ass. Julien isn't that afraid of what the ST thinks of him. Vic wouldn't totally lose it over some banger. I hated this episode..... This episode was excellent!
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Post by dtpollitt on Apr 25, 2007 19:47:45 GMT -5
This episode was excellent! LOL
Missed you, Jan!!
Dan
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Post by lynch345 on Apr 25, 2007 20:06:45 GMT -5
Boy, you defenders are late to the party. I was practically alone.
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Post by dtpollitt on Apr 25, 2007 20:39:15 GMT -5
Boy, you defenders are late to the party. I was practically alone. I never reply early, this is actually quite early for me already; it takes me at least two viewings and a POST-IT note chock full of comments before I feel comfortable posting on Sunday or Monday night. Don't worry, lynch345, we are small in numbers, but we pack a big punch, a la Mackey's DE .50 and Lem's pump action.
Dan
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Post by BenYankee on Apr 25, 2007 21:46:52 GMT -5
Did Vic drop a line into this episode saying that Kern is dead? That's a bit of a surprise that they never revealed with Anthony Anderson in charge of the One-Niners.
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Post by chemikalman on Apr 25, 2007 22:05:33 GMT -5
I've been waiting patiently to post this rant: Claudette makes me sick. She's blatantly lying to a man that wants and needs to keep his job. This man also has two autistic kids and needs to provide, remember Claudette? She's giving him false hope about the appeal hearing, which is never going to happen. And lying to Vic was her own play, not something that the 'brass' asked her to do. Where are all her holier that thou bullshit speeches about how 'The only way to change this place is through the truth', etc etc?? To summarize: I'm a Vic-enabler. Although I agree that Claudette's tactics make sense from her perspective, I dont give two shits about Claudette being a good captain and I couldn't care less about her point of view. And one more thing: What's this, Claudette has her 'own people' now and is trying to stack the strike team in her favor? She's really settled into the power chair quite nicely. Just goes to show... Beyond that, I agree with xer0signal that certain things seemed forced, principally the whole dream sequence. I also felt that the 'saving the ex-banger' symbolism at the end was a tad contrieved but at least it seemed realistic. The dream was just meh. Regarding Hiatt: Its too early in the game to feel anything about him, IMO. He's still learning, still being cautious. He hasnt made any moves to show us what he's really like. I just finished watching the ep for the first time. However, takes me at least two hours to go thru an ep because of all the rewinding I do with my tape to try to catch lines for the poll (one reason E and I like doing polls is it forces us to really focus on an ep, not that the rest of you don't). I just finished reading the first page of posts. I am in tune with Cletus' opinion the most, so far. Especially with his take on Claudette. That little gleam in Claudette's eye when she talked about how she lied to Vic is making her the postergirl for "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". Great call, cletus, in asking what happened to her bullshit speeches and crusade for the truth? I also agree with your take on Hiatt, but to a lesser degree. I didn't think he was that bad. He did make a helluva first impression by grabbing the rifle and getting in on the action in the opening scene after being told to "stay down" with the woman. He wasn't afraid to try his own style in the interrogation room (even though he got laughed at and even laughed at himself), and he sloughed off Shane's bullshit. I think he gave a hint of wanting Vic around and I think it will end up that way. Overall, I like his character. And about Corinne's dream, yeah it was whacky. Am I'm the only one who has totally whacky dreams? No? I didn't think so. The only flaky thing about it was Corinne thinking the needed to tell the ST about it, but hey, she's a woman isn't she? (bring it on, ladies ... I'm not scared ). Actually, I think the symbolism of not being able to save Vontez was pretty good. What is so hard to believe about Vic still being in his own version of the stages of grief that Vontez's death could set him off like the aftershock of an earthquake? Knowing what we do about Vic, I thought it was entirely plausible. The professional and romantic jealousy of Billiings toward Dutch is intensifying ... I find it pretty amusing. Hell, I'm giving this ep an A. Lots of peeps have said their opinion might change upon further viewings and I think that might be more true than usual with this particular ep.
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Post by BenYankee on Apr 25, 2007 22:27:12 GMT -5
Vic will take down Claudette if he finds out she's screwing with him. He's a pretty loose cannon at this point, just inc ase that last scene didn't drive that point home.
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Post by lynch345 on Apr 25, 2007 22:36:32 GMT -5
I repeat myself. Claudette saved Vic's ass from prison two episodes ago. She doesn't owe him shit. I have no problem with her misleading Vic.
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Post by -|E|- on Apr 25, 2007 22:49:18 GMT -5
Did Vic drop a line into this episode saying that Kern is dead? That's a bit of a surprise that they never revealed with Anthony Anderson in charge of the One-Niners. Moses murdered Kern during the raid on the police warehouse in S5. He shot Kern, then the guard. Vic, Shane, and Ronnie helped Moses and Kern get in there as part of a deal with Antwon to keep Lem safe in prison. After Antwon found out the safe was empty, the deal fell through and Vic put Lem on the run.
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Post by electroshockblues on Apr 26, 2007 2:42:02 GMT -5
Yes.
I too live in hope that Aceveda is exposed and disgraced for the despicable crime of having been raped.
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Post by Nick Mills on Apr 26, 2007 2:52:36 GMT -5
For me, it was all about him getting the guy into the hospital, seeing Corrinne and banging on the glass desperately. His urgency and the look on his face when the guy had died *was* good acting because it was so real. Vic then despairing while the camera kept looking at his ex, looking so concerned, was excellent because you felt like it was a major moment and that Vic was really on the edge. Him repeating himself with the same tone, "Lem... in your dream... your dream is.."
Then putting his fist through the wall showing his dispair that his promise fell through was chilling. He's gone through a major rollercoaster and this was the first time he literally couldn't take it. Chicklis portrayed the blowup so brilliantly *you*, as a viewer, were glued. That makes great acting.
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