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Post by badcop187 on Apr 11, 2007 14:31:56 GMT -5
Ok, First off I was very dissappointed with this ep. Kav gave up way to easy. Just did not seem right to me. Second, Vic and Kav's scene-Saying Vic was due to get his, No he is not! Like Vic said, Kav did not have the experience or balls to play this game.
Do you remember the ep where VIc let the dad of kid that was supposidly kidnapped and sexually assaulted, barge into the house and beat the shit out of a sex offender. Only to find out the guy was innocent in this case only? And Claudette told Vic he was innocent of THIS crime. Funny how she used the same logic to help Vic while talking to Dutchboy.
Vic is getting sloppy with his hunt for Guardo, this may be a problem. When Vic went into the barrio, dropped his mag from his gun, first thing I thought was "theres one in the chamber!" Thought that may have been a oops in filming, glad it wasn't and Vic got to use it later.
Ok ep, just very dissappointed in how Kav went out.
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Post by jadedgirl on Apr 11, 2007 14:55:14 GMT -5
I'd give this episode a B. Good but not as good as the last one.
My weird observation on this is that Vic is crazy, Shane is guilty and Ronnie is blind. They've become like those three Chinese monkey statues-you know the one where they're sitting next to each other with some part of them covered...see no evil (Ronnie), hear no evil (Vic) and speak no evil (Shane). Ronnie's the first one because he knows nothing about Terry and Lem, so he's blind to what's truly going on; Vic's the second because he's so desperate for closure that he won't hear the warning and clues around him and Shane..well, that's a given. He's such a massive coward that he's willing to go along with everything that Vic wants even though he knows it's wrong just to cover his own ass instead of doing the right thing and turn himself in. If he really wanted to alieve his guilt, he would have done that. But Shane being Shane, that won't happen and he stays silent. And that was my lack of sleep induced observation.
I will miss Kavanaugh and I'm hoping he's right about Vic's downfall. Goodness know he was right about everything else he said to Vic in that cell. And speaking of Vic...
Anyone notice those bags underneath his eyes? Looks like the man hasn't been getting any sleep. Not surprising considering his frame of mind. Vic needs closure-and he needs forgiveness to get it. Problem is, the only person who can give it to him is six feet under. So instead, he turns to the only method he knows to get the next best thing-revenge. Revenge though is a road with no end and I think Vic will also learn this by the time all this is over.
Now, looking on to the future. Now that Kavanaugh is gone, Vic will need a new foil and hopefully Hiatt will provide it. That dick swinging contest between the two of them is going to be epic...well, not epic but hopefully challenging. I don't think they'll just let this "forced retirement" thing go away either.
Until next week.
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Post by Scartissue on Apr 11, 2007 15:47:11 GMT -5
I also loved the interrogation scene with Shane when he flat out accused Kav of planting the evidence. Everything he said was right on and summed up Kav's entire character on the show. He put everything into nailing Vic, and couldn't get it done, so he had to "frame a guilty man." I also think it shows where Shane is. In that scene you couldn't see any guilt in Shane. It is when he is around the strike team where the guilt rises up and becomes unbearable.
I also like when Corrine shouted to Kav as to why he was going after her "husband," and Kav had to quickly remind her "Ex-husband."
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Post by BenYankee on Apr 11, 2007 16:43:07 GMT -5
Also, I can't get the poll results to show or my vote to be recorded but I would give this an A-. Log in using Internet Explorer. Firefox hates the polls. Boo hiss. But thanks for the info, E. Now I know why.
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billy92
VIC MACKEY IS A BLADE
Posts: 31
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Post by billy92 on Apr 11, 2007 17:36:20 GMT -5
I gave this one a B+. Brilliant acting from every single one of the cast. EVERY SINGLE ONE! However Kav gave it up too easy. I wanted Julien to kick his ass a bit or Kav go in the interrogation room and cap emollients ass!
loving the show so far though. Looks fantastic on my 42"plasma!!!
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Post by ISaidWhoaDangIt on Apr 11, 2007 20:47:53 GMT -5
Hats off to Corrine, Dutch and Claudette! I was never much of a Corrine fan but I definitely am thrilled that she got the balls to tell what Kavanaugh did to her right smack in the middle of the barn. I wasn't either until tonight. I'm glad that in a twist of fate, Corrine was the one who got everything started and she wound up bringing down Kav or at least starting the toilet flushing. Quite satisfying really. ;D
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Post by ShootFirst on Apr 12, 2007 0:04:54 GMT -5
I also hated the way FX ran an episode of The Riches between the second showing of last nights episode. Had to stay up to late to rewatch it. lol Anything to promote a NEW show for a fast buck. "Let's trick some veteran "SHIELD" watchers into "LIKING" something "NEWwwwwwwwwwwwwwww". FX! Are "The Riches" ratings so bad that you had to piggyback them on our show? Don't confuse my loyalty with "THE SHIELD" with my ability to change the channel. Why don't you make a paper doll set of your corporate heads so I can hand free copies out to SHIELD fans and we can dress them funny. It would make us feel better about all your obvious cheating and scheming. Then I will promise to watch one episode of any crappy new show you make...NOT! How do you really feel, Ice? ;D
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Post by SMOKE-DOG on Apr 12, 2007 0:10:29 GMT -5
^ This may be an extremely loaded question!
Are WE SURE that WE want to release this FLOODGATE?
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Post by 96belowthewave on Apr 12, 2007 3:42:59 GMT -5
rated b.vic in this episode passed the borders to mexico...i dont know, how many times?i mean its too much for one days work considering the basement scene,returning back to l.a. find rocha prevent the killing of big g.,take rocha s kids and return them to mexico ,and then back to l.a. to invent and organise guardo s girlfriend kidnapping and once again to mexico to settle the delivering of the message to guardo...well im not from the us and i dont know how far is mexico from l.a but even if its a 2 hour drive,vic would have spent at least 12 hours only driving on the road to mexico and backwards.this doesnt make sense to me,it is nt realistic.some events in this episode was too rushy and difficult to accept on a realistic basis for an attentive viewer. the basement scene,yes i agree it was intense but i guess if it was nt vic, the "homies" would nt be too stoned to notice the bullet in the chamber,and frankly i believe that anyone else except vic would nt have any minimum chance to get out alive from this place under the same circumstances. the scene i enjoyed most was the last one when kav says to vic "im in peace,are you?" it s very suggestive if you consider that this seasons slogan says "no one rests in peace". i am sorry for my english ,i hope my thread made sense to you somehow.let me know if not.i ll try harder next time!
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Post by electroshockblues on Apr 12, 2007 4:24:17 GMT -5
The whole deal between Vic and that other cop was based upon the fact that Vic would look in LA for Rocha whilst the other guy looked in Mexico for Guardo.
I don't think Vic crossed the boarder.
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Post by 96belowthewave on Apr 12, 2007 5:28:27 GMT -5
"The whole deal between Vic and that other cop was based upon the fact that Vic would look in LA for Rocha whilst the other guy looked in Mexico for Guardo. I don't think Vic crossed the boarder." i just had a 2nd look and i guess you re right.the barrio scene is in east l.a.i got it completely wrong under the location point of view.that explains a lot to me and for sure i have to recall my rate thread for this episode. thanx for making it clear to me
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Post by electroshockblues on Apr 12, 2007 6:19:50 GMT -5
No problem.
I have to admit that when it was discovered that Guardo was in Mexico I was hoping that we'd have another "Strike Team in Mexico" episode, like 'The Quick Fix' from S2, but I guess it wasn't to be.
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Post by Inside Man on Apr 12, 2007 11:53:22 GMT -5
I wonder if Vic's confrontation with the new leader of the Biz Lats is going to provide a multi-episode arc. Vic punked him in front of his homies and threw him out of a moving car, for Chrissakes.
Cletus & scartissue, you guys are right on the money. That Uni calling Vic with the heads-up was a nice little scene and speaks volumes as to how Vic is seen by the guys in the trenches.
And thanks to everyone who helped put Kavanaugh's caving into perspective. Yes, the long break and the start of a new 'Season' made it feel like it was too soon, but Kav's been rebuffed by Vic for--what did Shane say?--6 months? Y'all are right. I will miss Forest Whitaker on this show. He brings a heavyweight presence.
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Post by kingoffarmington on Apr 12, 2007 12:26:40 GMT -5
In the beginning when they were talking to that old gang leader, the camera went right on Shane when he says, "I turn on one of my own I disgrace myself."
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Post by danimal12483 on Apr 12, 2007 12:39:44 GMT -5
for the first time i gave it a c. just wasn't as shield like ya know? still loved it
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Post by Inside Man on Apr 12, 2007 13:03:34 GMT -5
Finished re-watching "Baptism by Fire" at lunch today. I had submitted a Best Line contendor to E--one of Billings' early lines.
I appreciated some of the more subtle moments on my second viewing:
Claudette's words while interrogating Emolia really got to Kavanaugh: "You were lost and found the strength to free yourself."
Talking to Naidia, Shane's total deadpan delivery of "We were worried we wouldn't get to you in time." God, that cracked me up.
Throughout the episode, I love the pauses after the dialogue. The focus stays on Shane and Kavanaugh before several scenes end, and you can tell these guys are dealing with some heavyweight issues.
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Post by eclipsepinkfloyd on Apr 12, 2007 13:59:07 GMT -5
I would give this episode a B+ I don't think it was as good as the first one b/c of Shane finding out that Lem wasn't turning. I think that once again the acting by everyone in the show was outstanding. I believe as a whole, this show has the best acting as any tv show I've ever seen. Every single actor, down to the criminals that make an appearance for only an episode, do a phenominal job on this show. Now to the nitty gritty of the episode. I thought that Shane was right in a lot of what he said to Vic, even though his motives are not what Vic thinks. He told Vic that he should get the apb cleared up b/c this is the first time these 3 have been clear of anything for a long time and its true. They have nothing hanging over there heads. Well Shane does, but I think that like with Terry, the only person that knows Shane killed Lem, is Shane, and no one can ever prove otherwise. I believe Shane was also right about them kidnapping Nadia. Even though we know Vic won't get arrested for it cause the show still has the rest of this season and next, in there world u have to look at it as if the team could get arrested for kidnapping her and then no one would get to Guardo and find Lems killer. I loved Ronnies loyalty in this episode also. I think he's been underutilized throughout the show and this season he's finally an important part, and I love it. I think in the end he will find out about Shane killing Lem and b/c of that I think he'll also find out about Terry. I can't wait to see how he deals with that. I also loved the scene where Shane told Ronnie he'd remember that he had a grenade from the bust and it accidentley went off in Lems lap. If I'm correct, when he said this his eyes were watering up. It shows that he can't even think or talk about it without it eating him up inside. I also think this shows that he really wants to tell someone b/c of how much it is eating him up. Thats why I think he will tell Vic that he did it. I also loved Vic throughout the episode not taking any crap. Him entering that basement was awesome. I loved the shock and awe comment. It shows that finding lems killer is the only thing he cares about. It shows his loyalty, which is a lost thing these days. Well for now thats it, I'll probably watch it again this week and comment more. Can't wait till Tuesday. This is the best show on T.V. these days, and in my opinion, of all time. This show is so good at keeping u on the edge of your seat for every second, and keeps us all wanting more all the time. gotta love it
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Post by murt1987 on Apr 12, 2007 19:21:57 GMT -5
I gave this a B. Great episode, very close to getting an A from me. The only three epsiode I've ever given an A to were the Pilot, S02_ep2 and the last epsiode of 5. I have to say that this has been the best opening two episodes of a season so far and I have this feeling its gonna be 3. I love this show so much i think Im gonna cry Im so proud to be a fan of this show
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Post by aussieangel on Apr 12, 2007 19:53:27 GMT -5
I felt like this episode was a bit of a filler which was needed to develop and establish where the characters are at.
Kav was pushing too hard with Emolia and the evidence, he was too quick to point out where the evidence fitted in, it was all too convenient. Given his whole intensity through out his stint on TS, I thought Kav gave himself up too quickly, but he could see what was happening and his eerie serenty after confessing was a great contrast. When he was sitting in the observation room with Dutch, the way he was looking at the screen and touching his face, he was beginning to realise what he was doing and giving himself up may have been some kind of small redemption (in his own mind). I don't think he needed to be dobbed in by Emolia, he needed for himself to come clean.
There were a few interesting moments between Shane, Vic and Ronnie that have already been mentioned. There is ground work being layed for sure. When Vic found out Kav had the warrant and was at his house and said he's got nothing to hide, Ronnie asks if there's something he should know and Vic looks at Shane and Shane overreacts a little too much for my liking, Ronnie is smart enough to be eventually piece this stuff together. Especially Shanes 'what if I told them I had the grenade' story.
I love all this discussion and analysis there are things I'd forgotten during the episode like Shane's comment 'We were worried we wouldn't get to you in time" - that was Vendrell of old!
I can't wait to see how this shit unfolds.
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Post by tigerlily on Apr 12, 2007 20:15:19 GMT -5
Best freaking show on tv. I rated this episode an A. I love reading everyone's comments. I am loving Corrine. Finally she developed a backbone. I found it interesting that she referred to Vic as her husband and not ex-husband. Makes me wonder if there could possibly be a Vic/Corrine reunion. Which I would not be against, btw. When Billings said that there was no way Vic would kill Lem,I for once found myself saying listen to Billings. He is right. Loved the cop calling Vic, giving him a heads up about the search and asking Vic if he needed him to do anything. It just shows how people have got Vic's back and how much the cops like him. Vic walking into that basement was b.a man. Vic has balls the size of watermelons. His obsession with finding Guardo and getting justice for Lem has clouded his judgment and has made him do some rather risky stuff. I loved Shane's somewhat confession to Ronnie. He is not gonna last long folks. Shane will crack. The guilt is eating him up. I did for a second, think that he gave himself away when he talked about Lem not wanting to go to Mexico and look where it got him. But then I remembered the scene in the bar with Lem saying that he didn't want to run. So maybe the guys will think nothing of it. And may I say that if Walton does not win an Emmy for his performance, I will be extremely pissed off. Maybe I was hearing things, and someone can clear this up for me, but when Kav was being handcuffed in the interrogation room, was it Julian that said put him in the cage? Because if it was then I am loving Julian more and more. Kav forced Julian to handcuff Lem and put him in the cage. So I find it only fitting that he would want to do the same to Kav. Freaking loved the conversation with Kav and Vic at the end. The whole thing about the universe taking out its trash and that it wasn't Mackey's time made me think, foreshadowing to season 7 much?? I found the whole bit of Kav being at peace and Vic saying that he wasn't at peace yet interesting, considering the whole theme for the season is nobody rests in peace. This maybe a little off topic but, must they keep showing Shane blow up Lem in the episode recap at the beginning of the show? I understand how important that scene was and how Lem's death changed the course of the show and is providing great stories but it was painful to watch the first time and it hasn't gotten any easier since then. Oh, I miss Lem.
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