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Post by -|E|- on Jan 17, 2006 15:32:12 GMT -5
"Lem's loyalty to Vic is tested when he's interrogated by Lt. Kavanaugh and Aceveda about the Strike Team's corrupt past. Meanwhile, the Strike Team investigates a multiple homicide and extortion scam, and Dutch and Claudette suspect a womanizing preacher of attempted murder. Tina shows she's unable to hold her own on the street, causing problems for Julien and Danny." =========================================================== Was this a good episode? Why/why not? What rating did you give this episode and why? What's the most memorable moment? Why do you think this episode is titled "Enemy of Good?"
Please share your thoughts/comments on Episode 5:02!
Ratings for last week's ep, "Extraction" (as of today):
A - 24 B - 14 C - 0 D - 0 F - 0Don't forget to send me your suggestions for the Best Line Poll via PM!! You have until 10 pm Eastern on Wednesday to send them in!! Chemikalman and I will have the poll up on Thursday.
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Post by Blanket Party on Jan 17, 2006 23:36:25 GMT -5
Very good episode.
Lem knows about Terry. Wonder how that's going to shake things up in the coming episodes?
I had a couple of concerns about the interrogation scene - first, Kavanaugh mentioned Diagur as a C.I....but wasn't he off the books? I don't think he was ever registered. Also, they would have referred to Tio as Theodore, but that's a nitpick. The other thing that bugged me was that they said Terry's death was two and a half years ago...is that right? Hafta do the math on that one...
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Post by Inside Man on Jan 17, 2006 23:43:34 GMT -5
I was too distracted to watch this episode in my preferred manner.
Kavanaugh really set Lem up with the CI conversation. He went for the jugular by mentioning Angie's name. That changed everything--it finally evoked some reaction from Lem besides stonewalling.
Parts of this episode were very intense, but Dutch and Claudette's storyline was quite weak. I like seeing them work together. Is Claudette getting sick, judging from her departures today and last week's "spell?"
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Post by dtpollitt on Jan 17, 2006 23:50:23 GMT -5
Not really feeling this one. I think it's one of those episodes that you can always turn back to and re-up the grade or viewing pleasure of it once the season or future episodes pan out... --My favorite part of 502 was the Julien/Tina/Danny storyline. I enjoy watching Danny giving advice to Julien about his new rookie cop. Tables have turned, eh? Hopefully we will see a bigger role of Julien and the affect he can have on the Barn with Tina. --I had a bit of a revelation about Kavanaugh tonight. He is so sloppingly (word?!) put together - his suit jacket unbuttoned and loose, suspenders twisted and half on half off, no tie, unbuttoned collar, unshaven, and overweight - what does this all mean? Kavanaugh is definitely a man that does not really give a shit about all the B.S. in the department - he just wants his man, the suspect, he just gives a damn about doing his job. Seems like the antithesis of Aceveda, doesn't he? --Claudette needs to come clean pretty soon here. At this rate, only episode two, Dutch is gonna be at HER death scene by episode six. --"Walkin on me with your angry shoes". ?? --Least favorite part of the episode: Jon and Corrine's scene. Looked forced and unnecessary. We already know he is working the Vic family angle. Get on with it already. --Doomsday looked like he could EAT Vic. Hopefully he comes back this season, he looks like he would make a great villian for a few episodes. --Lem did what was expected of him, he left the minute he found out Vic has lied to him for the last few years. I'm glad to see Lem keep true to his own morals and values here, especially since he is in such a contradiction with Vic right now. I have NO IDEA how this is going to be remedied. Overall, not feeling this one too much. Grade: C
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Post by lynch345 on Jan 17, 2006 23:52:02 GMT -5
That caught me off guard as well. I'm now assuming that the show simply follows it's own timeline. If you assume about six to seven months time having passed in between each season though, two and half would sound about right.
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Post by BenYankee on Jan 18, 2006 0:07:18 GMT -5
Re: The Shield timeline
I'm not sure about the jump between seasons 1 and 2, but the jump between 2 and 3 was about a day and a half, if I recall correctly. Either way, it was very short. The jump between 3 and 4 was about six months. So I think the jump between 1 and 2 and 4 and 5 turn out to be the same six months. When you factor in time for the episodes themselves, the math should work out.
These shows always follow their own timeline. Take 24. Its first season was 2001 but if you do the math, the day that started this week is about 7 years and 4 months after the first season.
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Post by BenYankee on Jan 18, 2006 0:17:03 GMT -5
Re: "Enemy of Good" I liked it. I'd give it a B+/A- or so. It had its weak points but it also had its strong points and it had a lot of interesting scenario development. First, Vic and the Strike Team really seem to be struggling. I don't know if their diminished stature in Farmington is a result of backlash from Monica's seizure policy, but they are really trying hard to assert themselves. They have no leverage with the good guys or the bad guys. With the department turning on Mackey, it really looks like he and the Strike Team are on their own. I think this episode did a masterful job of showing that. Second, David Aceveda had better be careful what doors he opens. Vic came close to finding out what happened with Aceveda when Juan ended up dead shortly after Aceveda visited Antwon. If Vic stops to think, he'll start digging into Aceveda. It could get messy for the councilman really quickly. I agree with dtpollitt. Get to the point with Corrine/Kavanaugh (although it looks like that might happen sooner rather than later). This episode simply showed Corrine still skeptical of Kavanaugh and Kavanaugh still prying into Corrine. Nothing new. Move on. Billings needs more character. He's starting to annoy me. I mean, how could the police department allow such a wussy guy to be the head of the office. Even if they want a yes-man after two loose cannon captains, they still need someone to run the office. It's clear that the inmates are running rampant over the asylum. Tina's exchange with Danny made me wonder if Tina was trying to insinuate that she thinks Julien is gay. It's hard to see that angle coming up again, but that was one strange exchange there. The whole Dutch/Claudette thing is interesting. He's too good of a detective for her to hide her secret - whatever it is - from him for much longer. And she's not sharp right now. She should just spill the beans. The suspense may be killing her. I mean, me. Suspense may be killing me Finally, the end of this episode was great. In my mind, I was comparing it to Vic and Shane's face-off last season, but this one was so much better. First, it wasn't built up over the course of 6 episodes (or in the previews). Second, it was fairly spontaneous for the course of the episode. Third, the shit pretty much hit the fan there because now Lem highly suspects Terry's death was not accidental or in the line of fire. It'll be interesting to see where this goes. As for the title, who is the enemy of good? Doomsday for being super scary and a good villain. The Senor guy for being the enemy of Good in the religious sense. Vic for being Terry's murderer. I would love to blame Aceveda or Kavanaugh for being enemies of good, but the truth is that I cannot. While we may not like Kavanaugh for going after Vic, for now, we don't know enough dirt on Kavanaugh to judge him. Vic has killed a cop and did steal a lot of money from the Armenian mob. Plus, his payments from Tio hardly make him look like a saint. Vic is almost the supreme enemy of good but we can't help but root for him.
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Post by lynch345 on Jan 18, 2006 0:26:24 GMT -5
Alright, all this title analysis has got to stop. The title is the least significant part of any story.
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Post by tylerdurden on Jan 18, 2006 0:34:13 GMT -5
best way to figure out if two and a half years is right (which im sure it is, they make sure about somethin that big when writing the script) is how old the kids were then and now, seems about right with the age they all were then/are now
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Post by brokin6 on Jan 18, 2006 0:42:23 GMT -5
I think that the episode was great. It is only the second one and I think it is just being used to flesh out things to come. I am really getting tired of Billings. I couldn't understand what he was talking about half the time but i really didn't want to either. He is TOTALLY what a city would use as a replacement. Complete yes man and absolutely spineless on top of it. The first episode showed exactly how little he knows the job by the way that Vic stepped up and responded to the "race war" Billings is completely out of touch and reminds me of a few lieutenants i have had. These are the same phone call babies that got their positions because daddy called in a favor but they never did a real days work in their lives. I have one now that looks like Steve Buscemi and has the personality of a turd. As far as Kavanaugh, he seems like a hype (drug adict) to me. He is dirty and sweaty and half the time he seems a little dislocated in his mind. Maybe that's what Mr. Whitaker was going for or it's a sign of some kind of weakness in the character itself. Either way he is doing a great job of creating someone eveybody hates. I also believe that he will slip up and change the name of his "son" when he speaks to Corrin again and she will catch on. Hopefully so. Anyway, great episode and i hope to see Doomsday come back for another round with the guys. He was just sick.
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Post by brokin6 on Jan 18, 2006 0:49:36 GMT -5
Sorry guys but i had to chime in again and ask this. Did anyone notice the uniformed officer at the scene with the dogs looked ALOT like lem!!! !!! It was just spooky. Check the vid kids. I have to check the credits for this one.
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Post by BenYankee on Jan 18, 2006 1:10:21 GMT -5
Alright, all this title analysis has got to stop. The title is the least significant part of any story. Dude, we've been doing title analysis for years now....it dates back to when many of us were a part of The Shield Fans post-episode discussion. It's all fun. Plus, why do you think E asks us why we thought the episode was named xxxx? Sometimes, figuring out how the titles match up with the action makes you think more about what you just watched. #twocents#
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Post by eddiekaay on Jan 18, 2006 2:03:55 GMT -5
The enemy of good is Evil -- "A lot of people want to know what Evil looks like."
Motel interrogation scenes too long -- dead air.
I'm glad Lem took action and alerted Vic.
Best line of the night: Ronnie: "Is he getting paid for today?"
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Post by dizzylizard on Jan 18, 2006 2:31:58 GMT -5
Tigre? I know that my memory of eps is a bit fuzzy, but did Kavanaugh say that Tigre was dead? Am I forgetting something here, or do I need to clean my ears (chuckle)?
As for the episode, I'm still mulling it over. I like it, and don't like it, at the same time. I'm going to have to wait a bit, and finish watching it at least one more time, before voting.
I wouldn't be surprised, one bit, to see Doomsday show up again - man, he was a serious badass!
~Diz
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Post by badcop187 on Jan 18, 2006 7:16:37 GMT -5
I can hear the line already(if doomsday returns) VIC- IF you want a job done right got to do it yourself. In reference to them "passing the buck" to the mexi police.
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Post by fju2112 on Jan 18, 2006 8:07:25 GMT -5
Alright, all this title analysis has got to stop. The title is the least significant part of any story. Dude, we've been doing title analysis for years now....it dates back to when many of us were a part of The Shield Fans post-episode discussion. It's all fun. Plus, why do you think E asks us why we thought the episode was named xxxx? Sometimes, figuring out how the titles match up with the action makes you think more about what you just watched. #twocents# agreed - and it worked particularly well for Extraction thus far...I like the title analysis, however shallow it might seem to some, because it gives us all sorts of other things to talk about and relate back to other storylines. That's what we're here for! As for the timeline, I'm surprised people are questioning it. I know we take for granted the fact that these actors & producers are living in their own world, but I wouldn't question their timeline; I'm sure the writers have an informal timeline based on the past four seasons and they know exactly what year/month it is since the show started, in that world. Just my two cents there. I liked this episode but it did seem weak & incomplete in parts. The thing is, I found that with Season 2 many times as well. But when I looked back on season 2 as a whole, to me, it was the best season of the show so far, so I'd give it time before judging it - the ratings poll should really be more of a knee-jerk reaction poll than a "how good was this episode in the scheme of the season"? Jumping ahead to next week and future episodes: - Vic is already going to find out about Kavanaugh? We know Corrinne ID's him form the preview. Seems like things are moving along at a fast pace so far this season compared to S4, which I like! - Can't wait for that face-to-face between Vic and Kav. According to tvtome.com it's going to happen next week. - Dutch is a ticking time bomb. You can already see him & Claudette begin to mix it up a bit..and he's definitely rough-around-the-edges, a Dutch we've never seen before...it'll be interesting; he knows he would have been better than Billings in that Captain's chair. - We're all pretty sure Doomsday will come back to haunt Vic...in fact I think the writers made it overly obvious to us! Not sure how I would have done it though so I can't criticize and they did a superb job casting for that role, becuase he DOES look like pure evil - I hope they don't punk out and label Kavanaugh a drug addict...but you know there's something wrong with him. I've mentioned before that he gives off this Orwellian, 1984-ish vibe...creepy, with the random hotel room, the messy appearance, the rushed talking when he's excited, yet he's always calm & generally in control when with someone from whom he needs to "extract" info - like a predator quietly hunting prey..he's like the personification of recent Radiohead songs filled with paranoia & the feeling of a doomed future. Ok I may have lost some of you there... There's definitely something up with him but I hope they make it more exciting than drug addiction...maybe he's got a past...you know Vic is going to start digging next week! Finally, a question - how long is this part of the season and how many episodes are in the next "half" of it? I remember FX confirming that the season will be split but what do we have, 11 episodes, then a wait of about 8-9months, then another 10...?
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Post by Dead Armenian on Jan 18, 2006 8:22:53 GMT -5
It feels like they are back to a leaner, meaner TS...fewer plots to juggle/get lost in (which was a problem in S4). I mean, Mrs. DA is able to follow everything, and she's pretty easily distracted.
Was Vic holding back out of surprise that LEM pushed him? LEM was lookin' pretty good - I think of all those old TSF polls about which ST member would win in a fight!
I think they are pacing the Claudette health question pretty well, actually.
Some have argued that apathy, not evil, is the direct enemy of good...as in, "Evil triumphs when good people do nothing." Perhaps Lem just taking Vic's work for everything? The poor public support that prevents good policing and empowers Doomsday? Danny telling Julien to cut Tina slack? Witness too scared to identify Doomsday (and still paying the price?) Dunno. Just a thought, of which I have fewer with each advancing year.
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Post by Cletus Van Damme on Jan 18, 2006 11:02:09 GMT -5
As I had said in another discussion... that Vic would even hesitate for a second to lie to Lem after Lem told him he was wearing a wire (no matter if it was disconnected) is incredulous beyond belief. I mean c'mon guys, that's really pushing it... Lem says 'Look me in the eye' and Vic just caves in???
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Post by BenYankee on Jan 18, 2006 11:37:23 GMT -5
As I had said in another discussion... that Vic would even hesitate for a second to lie to Lem after Lem told him he was wearing a wire (no matter if it was disconnected) is incredulous beyond belief. I mean c'mon guys, that's really pushing it... Lem says 'Look me in the eye' and Vic just caves in??? Yeah, I'm with you there, but Vic seems to have a soft spot for Lem. Vic wasn't even all that pissed off at him after he burned the Money Train money. It's almost as though he realizes Lem and Lem's conscience play an important role in reeling in the Strike Team sometimes. He just couldn't lie to him like that. Maybe.
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Post by Cletus Van Damme on Jan 18, 2006 12:19:16 GMT -5
Agreed, Vic may have a soft spot for Lem, but isn't that all the more reason not to tell him the truth? Why would he want to bring him in on this? Its not good for Lem (as knowing the truth isnt going to help his case with IAD any, at best it'll make him a liar and an accessory after the fact), and its definately not good for Vic, as it could very well mean the needle.
No matter what anyone says about conscience, one thing I know is that no man would want his children to remember him an a corrupt lying cop killer. There's motive enought NEVER to take any extra risks by telling someone else about a murder you've gotten away with.
To sum it up: there's no possible way, without really venturing into the area of total disbelief,that Vic could ever go down for Terry's murder. There's only one witness, Shane, and even if he ratted there's no proof, just his word against Vic's.
I just hope that this is the arc for the first half of the season and that for the second half it'll be something different (and more belivable).
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