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Post by Cletus Van Damme on Mar 24, 2006 15:09:58 GMT -5
Well, we all saw how that turned out. Three things are on my mind that I'd like to discuss with you all: 1) Why didnt Shane just take Lem to meet the others? Then maybe Vic could have talked him into leaving for Mexico, or at least they could have cleared the air about what Lem's true intentions were. ... which leads to the other thing on my mind... 2) Is there any chance that Ronnie and Shane were in on this together, behind Vic's back, since they knew that Vic could never, ever kill Lem. and finally (regardless of the answer to #2)... 3) When Ronnie spoke that line ("We need an exit strategy..."), was he implying -at some level- that murdering Lem was one of those exit strategies? I think its naive to believe otherwise. It had to have been on his mind. I mean, realistically, what else could they do if Lem had indeed opted for Witness protection (like that slimy bastard Aveveda said)? Hide in Mexico for the rest of their lives? What do you all think? Cheers, CVD PS I know these thoughts are totally in the wrong order, sorry.
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Post by jenandmike on Mar 24, 2006 18:52:24 GMT -5
I tought the same thing, how do you know that ROnnie didnt also have a grenade and they discussed who ever got to Lem first would do it, or all 3 of them had a grenade. I would still like to think Vic had nothing to do w/ this but when they showed up at the scene, their reactions we not what I expected, I mean, there is Lem, your brother, your best friend, laying dead covered in blood and schrapnel?!?! I was expecting a few more tears from Vic and Ronnie I hope Lem comes back next season and "haunts" Shanes mind and maybe causes Shane to go off the deep end. (I hope the writers read these boards, we all have some great ideas to keep Lem in the show!!!!)
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Post by badcop187 on Mar 24, 2006 19:03:42 GMT -5
I really don't think VIc had any knowledge of it, why? Because he did not even have the guts to kill Gilroy. Vic would have made killing lem the last resort, even after Jail for himself. Murder has not been a thing with Ronnie, he still does not know about Vic killing Terry.
I think Shane was just being selfish for him Jackson and Mara. Mara probably told him to do it. He of course thinks he was saving the team like when Vic killed Terry. Big difference though, Terry was a rat from the beginning, Lem was family.
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Post by Dead Armenian on Mar 24, 2006 19:19:06 GMT -5
Cletus - the idea of Ronnie being in on it intrigues me...good question about that "exit strategy" line!
At one point, Vic, Shane and Ronnie got pretty heated because one of them said something like, "Lem's talking"...was it Ronnie or Shane who said that? Vic shut it down pretty quick, as I recall.
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Post by joiseyal on Mar 24, 2006 21:37:37 GMT -5
Never thought of Ronnie, that is a good point since he always just hangs around the fringe, kind of like the fourth wheel in the group. But I don't think he would go that far. I do believe that someone (Kavanaugh most likely) has something on Shane, more that he got from Antione that we know about. Because why did he not have a tail on him like Vic and Ronnie (someone else pointed this out)? How did he know to go to this place that would make it look like the Salvadorans did it? Kavanaugh has been trying the right way to get at Vic and it was no longer working. He even tried to bed Corinne and that went south, furthering his frustration and trying his patience. So why not gather info on Shane, which is what is was most likely doing all along but we never knew. You could tell once Shane and Lem were talking that things were going to get bad, something was just eating him up so someone has Shane in a grip, getting him to kill Lem, thus forcing Vic to come out with guns blazing, which is what we are getting ready for in season six. Just my two cents.
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Post by badcop187 on Mar 24, 2006 21:43:48 GMT -5
Never thought of Ronnie, that is a good point since he always just hangs around the fringe, kind of like the fourth wheel in the group. Huh, more like a third wheel now.
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Post by chemikalman on Mar 24, 2006 22:33:58 GMT -5
Well, we all saw how that turned out. Three things are on my mind that I'd like to discuss with you all: 1) Why didnt Shane just take Lem to meet the others? Then maybe Vic could have talked him into leaving for Mexico, or at least they could have cleared the air about what Lem's true intentions were. ... which leads to the other thing on my mind... 2) Is there any chance that Ronnie and Shane were in on this together, behind Vic's back, since they knew that Vic could never, ever kill Lem. and finally (regardless of the answer to #2)... 3) When Ronnie spoke that line ("We need an exit strategy..."), was he implying -at some level- that murdering Lem was one of those exit strategies? I think its naive to believe otherwise. It had to have been on his mind. I mean, realistically, what else could they do if Lem had indeed opted for Witness protection (like that slimy bastard Aveveda said)? Hide in Mexico for the rest of their lives? What do you all think? Cheers, CVD PS I know these thoughts are totally in the wrong order, sorry. Interesting possibilities ... but I don't think so. I don't think Ronnie was in on it or that his line about an exit strategy implies anything ... just a gut feeling. Regarding jenandmike's comment, I thought Shane had a tail for a while and shook it, but maybe I'm wrong. I think Shane was convinced that there were only two possibilities: Lem agrees to go to Mexico or he has to die. I think he didn't take Lem to the others simply because he was afraid they wouldn't see things that way. I like the idea of bringing Lem back to haunt Shane next season, LOL!
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Post by slickvic on Mar 24, 2006 22:37:55 GMT -5
No, Shane never had a tail. He ought to be haunted by the death of Lem though. I think he will regret it later def. as Shane is the most shifty and impulsive character on the entire show. I think Vic will find out too, because he isnt smart enough to hide it from Vic. Im still surprised he passed the lie detector test in Season 4.
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Post by chemikalman on Mar 24, 2006 22:42:24 GMT -5
No, Shane never had a tail. He ought to be haunted by the death of Lem though. I think he will regret it later def. as Shane is the most shifty and impulsive character on the entire show. I think Vic will find out too, because he isnt smart enough to hide it from Vic. Im still surprised he passed the lie detector test in Season 4. If Shane didn't have a tail, that's nitpicker material. Don't tell me that Kavanaugh couldn't muster up one more IAD cop. And if he couldn't, then why in the world would he put the tail on Ronnie instead of Shane?
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Post by slickvic on Mar 24, 2006 22:47:58 GMT -5
No, Shane never had a tail. He ought to be haunted by the death of Lem though. I think he will regret it later def. as Shane is the most shifty and impulsive character on the entire show. I think Vic will find out too, because he isnt smart enough to hide it from Vic. Im still surprised he passed the lie detector test in Season 4. If Shane didn't have a tail, that's nitpicker material. Don't tell me that Kavanaugh couldn't muster up one more IAD cop. And if he couldn't, then why in the world would he put the tail on Ronnie instead of Shane? Chemikal Man...in no way was I trying to be hostile. I just was saying to my recollection, Shane didnt have a tail. If you can recall, or atleast to my recollection Shane wasn't seen exiting with Vic and Ronnie when they left the department. And when Shane got the warning call about the tail, Shane said he didnt have a tail. Again, Chemikal man, correct me if Im wrong.
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Post by Cletus Van Damme on Mar 25, 2006 3:24:29 GMT -5
Chemikal Man...in no way was I trying to be hostile. I just was saying to my recollection, Shane didnt have a tail. If you can recall, or atleast to my recollection Shane wasn't seen exiting with Vic and Ronnie when they left the department. And when Shane got the warning call about the tail, Shane said he didnt have a tail. Again, Chemikal man, correct me if Im wrong. Um, I think when Chem said that's 'nitpicker material' he meant the nitpicker thread, where we discuss all the little things that seen unrealistic about the show. I also agree that it would be odd not to tail all three guy in the ST. However, you're right, that is indeed what appeared to have happened (based on what we saw in the show), so go figure!
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Post by Cletus Van Damme on Mar 25, 2006 3:54:01 GMT -5
Thanks y'all for your thoughts on this.
I might as well give my opinion, too.
1) The only logical reason I can think of for Shane not taking Lem to meet the others is that he was afraid that the others would agree with Lem about him doing his time. I think that Shane didnt want to live in fear, or take the chance, that Lem would talk in prison or not. So he did what he did.
2) I also think that the odds are slim on Ronnie being in on it. However, I'm not completely ready to discount it.
3) Ronnie has always been the cautious one, who was asking if the line "You're greenlit" was in the singular or plural, who mentioned that eveyone has 'different levels of involvement', etc. So in that scene where they're talking Lem possibly making a deal, maybe nobody said it outright, but what were they going to do if they went to the meeting and Lem told them "Hey guys, I'm thinking about cutting a deal". Just say "Sure buddy, let's see if we can all end up in the same prison so we can hang out."
Obviously when you're facing a very long prison term, murder can be an 'exit strategy'. As we all saw, it was obviously in the back of Shane's mind, and I'm thinking Ronnie's, too.
I'm fairly certain that Vic never entertained the thought of killing Lem.
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Post by -|E|- on Mar 25, 2006 11:16:49 GMT -5
If Shane didn't have a tail, that's nitpicker material. Don't tell me that Kavanaugh couldn't muster up one more IAD cop. And if he couldn't, then why in the world would he put the tail on Ronnie instead of Shane? When Kav said he needed more bodies (officers to assist in the surveillance), Aceveda told Kav he'd burned his bridges with the Chief, and Claudette said she needed her people on the street. So it was just Kav and his number 2 man. Vic and Ronnie were the first ones out of the Barn, so those are the two they tailed. Shane didn't come out until Kav and No.2 were already on Vic and Ronnie.
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Post by lemonhead on Mar 25, 2006 11:43:23 GMT -5
I hope Lem comes back next season and "haunts" Shanes mind and maybe causes Shane to go off the deep end. Would remind me to much of The Sopranos. Wouldn't be The Shield-like at all! But it would definetly be funny. lol That whole "killing Lem" thing of Shane reminded me of the killing from Pussy Bombensiero (was their friend, too) but the Strike Team ain't Mafia, and Lem didn't gave up no one. But Pussy came back to haunt Tony. But if Lem appears in flashbackscenes and stuff like in 1x02 "Our Gang", when Terry was guest starring, it would be something else, though.
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Post by -|E|- on Mar 25, 2006 12:01:17 GMT -5
The inside info from www.kennyjohnson.com is that he will be used to film some "flashback" type scenes, and he will be paid as if he were gong to be in all 10 eps of S6. No mention of haunting anyone..
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Post by chemikalman on Mar 25, 2006 12:21:35 GMT -5
Chemikal Man...in no way was I trying to be hostile. I just was saying to my recollection, Shane didnt have a tail. If you can recall, or atleast to my recollection Shane wasn't seen exiting with Vic and Ronnie when they left the department. And when Shane got the warning call about the tail, Shane said he didnt have a tail. Again, Chemikal man, correct me if Im wrong. Um, I think when Chem said that's 'nitpicker material' he meant the nitpicker thread, where we discuss all the little things that seen unrealistic about the show. I also agree that it would be odd not to tail all three guy in the ST. However, you're right, that is indeed what appeared to have happened (based on what we saw in the show), so go figure! Cletus is right, I was referring to the "nitpicker" thread that is elsewhere in the S05 board. I didn't take your comment to be hostile at all. As far as E's comment "When Kav said he needed more bodies (officers to assist in the surveillance), Aceveda told Kav he'd burned his bridges with the Chief," well it was also said later that the Chief was back on board after Lem didn't report in, so I don't buy into the idea that they couldn't spare one more guy to tail Shane-- especially someone as suspect as Shane, who was the only member of the ST with Vic when Terry was killed. The Chief could arrange to assign anyone from the LAPD, IAD or anyone he wanted. It would have made more sense, IMO, to have a tail on Shane that Shane managed to shake. Having grown up and learning to drive in LA, I know that wouldn't be too hard.
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Post by lynch345 on Mar 25, 2006 12:26:12 GMT -5
That sounds very interesting. As far as I can remember, I think that might be the first time they use flashbacks since episode two with Terry. I thought the writers had abandoned that device for some reason. For Shane, the guilt of killing Lem will probably reawaken all the past demons he had previously had for killing Terry. I'd like to see some flashback that show's Lem interacting with Terry, and see how Shane will handle it; also, I'm a fan of Reed Diamond, so there's that.
I always thought he still suspected Ronnie being involved with the Terry murder. Wasn't Lem the only one that he had ruled out?
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Post by Dead Armenian on Mar 25, 2006 22:53:19 GMT -5
If he starts haunting people, they could end an ep. with "Invisible" *by Clay Aiken. Then we wouldn't mind it so much when TS ended.
*I was torturing Mrs. DA by playing downloads of this song. It is part perverse ("If I was invisible, I could watch you in your room") and part just plain bad awful painful writing ("If hearts were unbreakable/I could tell you where I stand/I would be the smartest man" I just fried you in a pan/I can fill a garbage can/If you're gone I use my hand/check it out I ate some flan...)
OK enough of this crap I'll just take my member offline for a few...
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Post by icy on Mar 25, 2006 23:34:48 GMT -5
The idea of "conscience is a killer" may fit into Shane's mind in later episodes. This is the first time he has killed somebody himself that was close to him. I do think that this event will definitely come back to haunt him.
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Post by stovetop on Apr 17, 2006 18:33:21 GMT -5
I wouldn't ever expect shane to be capable of killing Lem Vic or Ronnie.
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