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Post by ricktheprick on Feb 4, 2006 16:00:14 GMT -5
Hey guys,
A while back I started a thread pitting Glen Close against Forest Whitaker to get people's opinions. Lots of good stuff, so I thought I'd try this.
Before season 5 started FX's official website called Kavanaugh Vic's intellectual equal. Kavanaugh seems very smart, he must be doing something right to make it to Lieutenant. Throughout the first 3 episodes I was pretty convinced that Kavanaugh had the smarts to hang at Mackey's level for a while. Then episode 4 came along and now I think that Vic is beginning to gain the upper hand on him. First of all he put doubt in Kavanaugh's mind about Aceveda by staging a "meeting" with him while the bugged Lem listened in (kind of). This tells me that Vic is already formulating a intricate plan to win this war. Next, the scene where Vic confronts Emolia shows how he has the ability to act quickly. Find out Emolia talked to her cousin and make up a story that she will go along with while Kavanaugh is making entry into the house! Then keeping his cool while he actually goes on the offensive against Kavanaugh. I think Kavanaugh actually bought it! Through fear Vic has the ability to control Emolia. We'll see what happens in episode 5.
So what do you guys think???
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Post by badcop187 on Feb 4, 2006 17:42:11 GMT -5
Vic is way smarter than Kavanaugh. He has one advantage that Kav does not have. His Strike team. Lem giving him the heads up, and the strength the team has with each other. Look how they have stuck together in the tough times over the last 4 seasons. The biggest advantage is Vic knows about the wire, kav does not know he knows.
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Post by arne on Feb 5, 2006 2:28:44 GMT -5
The biggest advantage is Vic knows about the wire, kav does not know he knows. I agree that Vic played it smart so far - well, that's what we expect him to do, right? But no matter how smart he talked himself out of the Emolia/Kavanaugh situation - if Kavanaugh doesn't know that his investigation is stalled now, they should take away his badge. Kavanaugh was absolutely stunned when he realized Vic found Emolia, too surprised to react properly, but he sure as hell knows that Vic knows. Kavanaugh should also have realized by now that he underestimated Vic - and he will have to take some serious action to make up for that. This might well be another advantage for Vic and his boys: Kavanaugh might get overzealous and thus lose control of the situation. If he bugs the clubhouse, something he should have done right from the start - well, Ronnie has checked for bugs there more than once, and even if they can't remove the bugs without Kavanaugh knowing, there isn't much to be gained from that. But I don't think Kavanaugh isn't smart enough to have some aces up his sleeve. He just shouldn't try to confront Vic directly. There are weak links to go after. 1) Shane. There is something brewing. "Team is one thing, family's another". Shane's getting weasely now that IAD is up his ass, his conscience is ringing because of Terry, and don't forget he was on the verge of breaking back in Season 1 - if it weren't for Vic to enter the interrogation room that day, Aceveda would have nailed him - and Vic. Thank god it was only episode 2 back then. 2) Mara. Her obvious hate for Vic and her being spineless is a great danger to the entire ST. If Kavanaugh pries into her, she may find a way to turn things around to protect Shane, but make Vic take the fall. Going after Mara could be Kavanaugh's best move to get Shane to crack. 3) (possibly) Corinne. It's safe to say that, for the sake of her kids, she doesn't want Vic to be taken down. But what if the fear of going to prison overwhelms her? What if she thinks it through and decides that things might get worse for her if Kavanaugh finds out she lied to protect Vic? I don't think she will roll on Vic, but you never know... "conscience is a killer". Kavanaugh is too smart IMO to rely only on bugs, wires and Emolia. He doesn't seem like a guy who makes the same mistake twice. So now that he knows he underestimated Vic, he has to change tactics - and he will. As smart as Vic is, this has only just begun. I guess we haven't seen Kavanaugh's best game yet.
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mdrn
"If she wants to play lumberjack she needs to handle her end of the log". Harry Callahan
Posts: 22
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Post by mdrn on Feb 5, 2006 6:50:58 GMT -5
Mara tells about the money train. Shane gets popped. Mara & Kavanaugh convice Shane (no jail time) to give up Vic for the murder of Terry. Vic gets busted.
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Post by Cletus Van Damme on Feb 5, 2006 11:04:28 GMT -5
Well, the way things seem right now Vic has an edge on Kavanaugh. And based on the previews for "Trophy", I think that he's going to gain even more of an advantage. However, I think its obvious that the Kavanaugh character was not meant to be spanked by Vic episode in-episode out. For there to be any sort of suspense, Kavanaugh is going to have to mount some sort of an effective offensive. There are, however, certain things working in Vic's favor: There is no evidence at all regarding the murder of Terry, and there is no real evidence for the money-train. So there's nothing to hold over Ronnie and Shane to get them to flip on Vic. In fact, the only one that IAD has leverage on is Lem, that's why he's the focus and not Shane or Ronnie. Also, Corrine really doesnt know anything about Vic's dealings, so what could she tell IAD, anyway? As far as the $65000 from the money train go, well Vic can just say he found it There's no way to trace that money, no way to prove its dirty.
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Post by twistedjustice on Feb 5, 2006 13:19:18 GMT -5
Vic is smart but the fact of the matter is u have to remember what shawn ryan said. he said its not going to end well for vic. which eats ass, but thats how ryan wants it.
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Post by Cletus Van Damme on Feb 5, 2006 14:04:25 GMT -5
Vic is smart but the fact of the matter is u have to remember what shawn ryan said. he said its not going to end well for vic. which eats ass, but thats how ryan wants it. Not ending well for Vic can go many ways... Seasons 1 and 3 didnt end well for Vic. Doesnt mean he's necessarily going to die or end up in jail.
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Post by qb on Feb 5, 2006 15:08:10 GMT -5
There is some very real intrigue this season! I am delighted by the second and third guessing we've been doing... the writers have it right.
Kav looked spooked when he walked in on Vic and Emolia. Did he really think Vic wouldn't find her? Did he really not notice Vic and the boys in the background the entire time? After his experience with corruption and bad cops, is Kav really so taken off guard by Vic's alpha male prowess? <tingle>
I don't know what to believe!! Is Kav really spooked or is he playing Vic? This is terrific! Like an entirely different level of suspense and intrigue...some real psychological twists and turns ahead. To--tally Lovin it!!
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Post by jray on Feb 5, 2006 15:18:20 GMT -5
I don't think that Kav was playing vic at the end of S5x04. I think he was legitimately scared that he was f*cking it up, and he realized that he'd been underestimating Vic the entire time.
Kavanaugh seems to be clouded by Hubris to me. He's a guy who's had a lot of success and thinks that he can bring down anyone. Not so fast, buddy. You've never tangled with the slippery Vic Mackey. Might want to rethink your strategy and fine tune your game a bit.
With that said, I do kind of hope Kavanaugh comes close to busting Vic, only to have the tables turned on him. Maybe he resorts to beating the info he needs out of someone and then in turn ends up under investigation.
Does anyone else think that Vic is going to work Aceveda back to his side?
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Post by ricktheprick on Feb 6, 2006 13:05:37 GMT -5
Does anyone else think that Vic is going to work Aceveda back to his side? Ohh! absolutely, Aceveda is such a punk, when he see's Kav's investigation get into dark waters he'll bail. Aceveda cares only about Aceveda. Plus the whole blowjob thing can't be dead, there will probably be some gang banger doin "a dime in Chino" who will somehow get the info of how Juan dies in prison to Vic, then... even more power to Mackey. Regarding the episode "Trophy" (hasn't aired quite yet) I gotta think this whole deal with the Russians that Vic makes is just another way to deceive Kav and Aceveda, like I said before Vic is just to damn smart to do it any other way.
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Post by ricktheprick on Feb 8, 2006 13:10:34 GMT -5
My god did Mackey stick it to Kavanaugh hardcore!!! This puts more proof the the fact that maybe Kav can't play at the same level as Vic. What a f*cking multitasker Vic is: He finds out about the bug in the clubhouse, plays the lawyer, plays the Russians, makes Aceveda look absolutely terrible in Kav's eyes, puts together a bust to take the bad meds off the street, does it legal for once to please Billings, and manages to piss off Kav royally!!!
All in a days work for Vic Mackey #scooby_03#
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Post by badkittykitty on Feb 8, 2006 14:15:35 GMT -5
Kavanaugh's problem isn't his lack of intelligence and street smarts...his problem is letting this case crawl under his skin and it clouds his judgement. Damn I LOVE Whittaker in this part.
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Post by dallasdeb on Feb 8, 2006 16:52:49 GMT -5
My god did Mackey stick it to Kavanaugh hardcore!!! This puts more proof the the fact that maybe Kav can't play at the same level as Vic. What a f*cking multitasker Vic is: He finds out about the bug in the clubhouse, plays the lawyer, plays the Russians, makes Aceveda look absolutely terrible in Kav's eyes, puts together a bust to take the bad meds off the street, does it legal for once to please Billings, and manages to piss off Kav royally!!! All in a days work for Vic Mackey #scooby_03# Kinda like a Master Card commerical - Priceless!
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Post by ricktheprick on Feb 15, 2006 13:08:13 GMT -5
Well well, Kavanaugh totally dominated "Rap Payback".
He's got all kinds of tricks up his sleeve, I thought he may have lost his edge after last week, but now he's back with even more vengeance. Going after Danny was ruthless. I actually think now that Kav's gonna get Vic.
Vic on the other hand was way out of character, he was so worried about Corinne he could hardly do his job effectively. For Vic to beat this prick he's gonna have to team up with Aceveda.
I'm still shocked as to how hard Kav is coming down on EVERYONE.
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Post by jray on Feb 15, 2006 14:31:30 GMT -5
Indeed, Kav finally got some leverage. I still don't think he'll be the one to bring Vic down though. How long is it going to be before Vic gets some real dirt on this guy? It's never taken Vic this long to discover someone's weakness or some little demon from the past. I think we'll be seeing that soon.
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mdrn
"If she wants to play lumberjack she needs to handle her end of the log". Harry Callahan
Posts: 22
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Post by mdrn on Feb 15, 2006 17:52:54 GMT -5
I still say at the half time:
Kav 14 Vic 14
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Post by ricktheprick on Feb 16, 2006 13:09:36 GMT -5
Indeed, Kav finally got some leverage. I still don't think he'll be the one to bring Vic down though. How long is it going to be before Vic gets some real dirt on this guy? It's never taken Vic this long to discover someone's weakness or some little demon from the past. I think we'll be seeing that soon. Well it's pretty clear that Kav's gonna put the pieces together and find out about the money train. There's so much evidence floating around out there, bags of money, Shane's new house, Mara's mother being investigated by the IRS less than a year ago, plus I think Dutch has always had a suspicion that Vic may have had something to do with the robbery. Or should I say murder robbery, there were bodies at the Money Train heist, how the hell will the strike team prove that they weren't the killers. God I hope Vic figures something out, time to team up with Aceveda. Also I wonder if Kav and Dutch will ever have any on screen contact soon???
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Post by ricktheprick on Feb 25, 2006 13:35:34 GMT -5
Kav is really starting to get me worried. I think he actually might "take down" Vic and the Strike Team. With all this added pressure on Vic I have noticed that in the last two episodes he has understandably lost his edge. Having to worry about Corrine and the other team members will do that, but I sure hope he can get his vindictive side to shine more in the coming episodes. I miss the ass beating action, and the borderline illegal activities.
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Post by lynch345 on Feb 25, 2006 20:09:53 GMT -5
Borderline? ;D
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Post by ricktheprick on Feb 27, 2006 13:03:22 GMT -5
Yeah, Yeah I thought that too when I wrote it, but hey I didn't want to make the Strike Team look bad
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