|
Post by tavon69 on Dec 5, 2008 9:07:52 GMT -5
I have not seen one thread where anyone justifies Shane or Vic in what they do. What I do see is people, such as myself and Nick, who have posted not defending arguments or justifications, but rather insights into the reasons behind actions. What's right or wrong is always up for interpretation; what you see as black/white I may see as grey, and the other way around. It's the reasons behind the actions that define something, or someone. Shane fucked up yet again. He did a horrible thing. But his reasons weren't as bad as the act itself. Not so big on good intentions? It's not really that difficult to understand. Good people do bad shit, bad people do good shit. It's not the people, it's the choices.
|
|
|
Post by -|E|- on Dec 5, 2008 10:14:45 GMT -5
I love the character of Shane Vendrell. Annihilating the entire Vendrell family was evil. Selfish. Stupid. Crazy. But I still love him. The Shield has some of the most well-developed characters of any fictional story I've ever heard, seen, or read. I love analyzing them.
|
|
|
Post by ebitch on Dec 5, 2008 10:24:15 GMT -5
sorry hun, was just too tempting and too funny. couldn't help myself
|
|
|
Post by -|E|- on Dec 5, 2008 10:44:51 GMT -5
BAhAHHAHahhahhahhaaaaaa!!! There's a game thread titled, "Deliberately misquote the person above you..." or something like that. I think you'd enjoy it.
|
|
|
Post by Nick Mills on Dec 5, 2008 15:04:38 GMT -5
I don't think it's at all correct to brand gangster rap 'immoral' just because some young people have taken the wrong message to these works. Alot of it is character work - just like James Gandolfini in 'The Sopranos' or Michael Chicklis in 'The Shield'. Not everyone is going to grow up the same as these rappers - in fact, there are positive messages to be taken from these people. Take Tupac Shakur, a very well known rapper - even though alot of his work was mostly character, catagorised in 'gangster rap', his most famous songs are the ones that talked about the struggle, fighting to make things better etc. Several of these songs are his highest rated and talked about pieces of music - 'Changes' as an example which focuses on the struggle in these ghetto's. 'Brenda's Got A Baby', 'Dear Mama', 'Keep Ya Head Up' and so forth.
Eminem changed his direction to release songs like 'Like Toy Soldiers' which discusses escalation and the negative aspects of gang-violence often resulting in young men's lives being taken. I'm not denying that there are violent or sexual lyrics in gangster rap - but it is simply just music and I do know of many individuals, like myself, who listen to it for the sheer pleasure and don't take it literally. One person I know is studying to be a doctor - and yet her favourite rapper is 'The Game' who often raps somewhat violent lyrics. Sure, as you say, some young people take it literally.. BUT it's up to the individual themselves. Just like video games, television etc - it's not the artist that should be held responsible but the individual themselves. And it's them to blame if they decide to take these people as rolemodels - not the artists. Gangster rap, for all the slack it gets, has some brilliant music. And it's often misunderstood beyond all the messages of violence, sex etc. Often like television.
IMO, and strictly such, alot of it is 'character' work. Eminem once ridiculed the fact that some people suggested that he actually went and did these things in a song.
But that should never stop an individual from taking messages from these people and using it to better themselves. Sometimes, the best of messages come from those types of media that others would see as 'violent' and such. And whilst it's sad to hear that some of the young folk you work with have taken these messages on to make themselves more of a stereotype, it's not the majority who I do believe take it on as a form of entertainment.
To be honest, I've often 'cheered on' the actions and characters of Tony Soprano, Vic Mackey and Michael Corleone. Even Tony Montana. They're such brilliant performances I can't help doing so. But, like many viewers, I always get the message at the end. The quality of the writing in each of these instances is brilliant enough to plot the downfall as much as they plot the actions these characters have the upper hand - is that really so unacceptable as to like these anti-hero's?
|
|
|
Post by rkd1234 on Dec 14, 2008 20:40:47 GMT -5
By the end, Shane would have been so worn down due to the amount of drugs he had taken, the stress of Mara's injuries and being on the run for so long, all took its toll on him emotionally. Then for his former best friend to say the things he did over the phone, and the fact that any chance he had of saving Mara was gone due to Vic's immunity deal, you can see how twisted he had become and then, when he used again in the general store I think it sent him over the edge and he felt what he was doing was justified. The thought of Vic spending time with Jackson, when he hated Vic so much, was unbearable and in his state, he felt that Jackson would probably have wanted to stay a family. It was tragic and sick what he did, but you still can't hate Shane.
Also I don't think Billings refused to take him in because of being a coward, Shane was pleading for Mara's safety and promised to turn himself in later that day. Despite Billings questionable heroics, he is a genuine family man and I think he respected Shane's family.
|
|
|
Post by doomgaze on Dec 4, 2010 19:15:44 GMT -5
I'd just like to address everyone who is saying something to the effect of: "Shane was brave, Shane did what he thought was right for his family."
You're wrong. Shane was not brave, he was prideful. Shane was not doing what he thought was right for his family, he was doing what he thought was best for him. When you think about the demented logic he used, it becomes clear: he would rather have his child die than have his enemy take care of him and tell him anything detrimental about his father.
Okay, people. That's not love. That's pride. He took his son's life because of how he thought the alternative would affect HIM, not his son. That is a love of self, not a love of others. I'm not saying that Shane never had the occasional glimpse of valiance, but he was ultimately self-serving even in his murder/suicide.
Just because you're able to reason out motives for people's actions doesn't mean their actions were noble. Shane was not brave. I don't know if he was a coward, but he certainly wasn't brave. He was selfish.
|
|
|
Post by nico on Jan 8, 2011 13:04:35 GMT -5
as the shane character was created to be hated i think it was the best thing in the final act.the closeness they had(shane&mara)and the subtil moments were beautifull,the act at the end well,it's a human reaction,not the good one but very human,we don't have to agree with everything some writer serves us but the art of it was brilliant.i wasn't too crazy about vic giving up gardocky,i actually think it's very unlike vic,so they went wrong there,but i allmost seems like they left a window open for a possible future???
|
|
|
Post by Kungfu on Feb 7, 2011 12:02:33 GMT -5
Am not happy in the way it ended for Shane let alone his family, but He was really messed up from the Coke Speed ,Tension/Stress etc whatever ,that messes up your mind,always thought Vic would get him though. Hate is a stronge word, he became a produkt of the Strike Team ,ofcourse he did bad things ,but with Lem you saw how much it hurted him inside , that made it difficult to hate
|
|