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Post by Strike Team 4 Life on May 9, 2007 8:33:18 GMT -5
The people who rated this episode of the season better not have rated previous episodes an A, no way that any other episode this season was better than this one!
Give this an A....TIMES TWO!
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Post by vegaslily on May 9, 2007 9:48:20 GMT -5
Wow! My heart was back in my throat waiting with anticipation as to what Vic might do. It was an awesome episode! Some of my favorite parts was Dutch getting his leverage with Billings over the candy machines, Julien's complete discomfort when Vic was interrogating that pta drug user, Vic talking his way out of trouble with Nadia, Hiatt's overly obvious interest in Tina and of course the last scene with Shane and Vic. That was such a powerful scene, the torture in Vic's face was so pure and Shane's acceptance and willingness to move on was so cold, i almost stopped breathing for a few seconds. Can't wait till next week!
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Post by jwc53531 on May 9, 2007 10:13:08 GMT -5
not much else to say really - it's interesting that this season's episodes pretty much all have had these 'big' endings that tend to override the negative aspects of the earlier scenes - although this ep was pretty much picture-perfect - my favorite line was when they were busting into the knife killer's place and Vic says something about getting their asses reamed and Shane looks right at Julien and repeats the 'ass-reaming' comment Vic said - wonder if this tension is being created for a reason - the Danny/Autumn Chiklis scene was pretty awkward - not sure why that whole plotline was even in the ep - maybe it's in MC's contract that his daughter gets some lines each season - knowing what's coming makes this episode all the more powerful, I think - everyone did a great job bringing all these diverse stories to the front and setting the stage for the last four episodes - loving' Ronnie too - and Hiatt
A- from me
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Post by Inside Man on May 9, 2007 10:35:07 GMT -5
Absolutely the best episode of the season, one of the best in the series, ever. I think it's my favorite since the Season 3 Finale.
An A doesn't do this episode justice. IT FEELS LIKE THE SHIELD AGAIN!
Oh and for xerosignal: You misconstrued my thoughts about feeling uncomfortable with the show...We're still on the safe side of the Shark.
One thing that I think I'll have to elaborate in the other thread that led to my not 'feeling' the show the way I always have. I don't like seeing Vic clueless. That's a vulnerability I don't want to see in Vic.
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Post by cuffs on May 9, 2007 11:03:26 GMT -5
All right, you two who dared give this ep a "B" 'fess up!! Wait, maybe you thought it was "B" for best ep of the year??
Yessir, this one felt like old school Shield again. I'll add my few cents to a couple of things mentioned so far.
Vic's daughter popping up just adds more shit to the firestorm. She's also a major source of guilt/conscience for him. But this time, instead of pulling his tail between his legs and letting it eat at him, Vic reacts like the old Vic we love and missed--like an injured pitbull snapping and snarling at everything. Hoo-ah!
As for Shane making a decision on his own--again--we've seen him do more and more of this in the last two seasons. Vic was always the one who made the decisions at first because the others were like younger brothers. Shane made his first f*ck-up decision when he took money from their stash to invest somewhere. It's been downhill in that regard ever since.
My only problem with the ep was Tina suddenly showing up again. Seemed very contrived but did throw into the mix Tina's new-found contacts higher up. Then her confrontation with Danny seemed a little forced. What is the timeline between this ep and the last? In any case, I love the tension between Danny and Tina. Can you say, "Catfight!"
Ronnie is left out again--just disappeared--but I predict something awesome might happen with this character. Like maybe he comes out of this nowhere land and has a major role in bringing Vic, or Shane, down.
My only concern, and it's a big one, is how in hell do they follow this ep with anything that can compare?? I hate to see next week be a letdown now that everyone's foaming at the mouth with delight!
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Post by Nick Mills on May 9, 2007 11:27:24 GMT -5
Probably one of the best episodes of 'The Shield' I've seen lately; I saw this a while back and loved every minute of it. While I was a fan of the hospital blowup, it did seem a little strange in context over a 'dream' and "Haunted" was Shane admitting what he did to his wife (Maura, Mara? sp?) but this episode was perfect in everything; buildup, introduction and the long shot ending (Shane's line followed by him dropping his cigerette angrily while Vic watches and driving away with the engine roaring away in the distance while Vic looks on, almost shocked at what's happened)
I got a kick out of the Antwon Mitchell/Vic Mackey discussion; Anthony Anderson completely captures his character as someone who, with all the connections around him, doesn't give a shit about anything and believes himself to be the kingpin. It's quite ironic how Antwon threatened Vic with Lem's death because of the warehouse situation but when Vic turned around and warned him, Antwon didn't give a shit and insulted him leading to the pullapart. In this episode, Vic tried pinning the whole Lem death on Antwon and just got a one liner thrown at him ("And that, ladies and gentlemen, is my final encore"). Very chilling but also very funny at the same time; how Vic, a guy who scares the crap out of most people from criminals to other cops, doesn't even faze Antwon.
This gang boss, potentially facing death and destruction of his crew because of a misaccusation, sits there and again starts mocking him for not finding the true killer, giving Vic an indication that it wasn't Antwon who killed Lem. Vic's *never* made a fool of usually; Antwon seems to be the only person who can piss Vic off and stand him up like that. And the look on Antwon's face was arrogence; he didn't give two shits which makes him more dangerous than most criminals in 'The Shield'. I predict he's going to end up an even bigger character come the last season; after all the crap with Shane, I believe Vic may strike some sort of deal for Antwon to get his revenge due to him not being able to go through with it. Would make sense due to Antwon's and Vendrell's history.
The PTA women being searched was a little tense; I could see Vic trying to scare the shit out of this woman which was an uncomfortable tactic for Julian but he knew it was necessary, hence standing in the doorway. Very well built up, long and stretched with the reactions of the characters being a complete mystery to the viewer; switching back and forths from Shane looking at Julian to see how he'd react and the constant eye contact between the two. The only problem I had in this episode was how they went from Vic introducing his daughter to the baby, Lee to Shane and Vic meeting up. Not good contrast, if you ask me. The whole point of a TV episode is to keep the idea fresh in the viewer's mind; the idea being that Vic's going to confront Shane.
Then came the other stuff; tension between Julian and Mackey/Shane due to their history, Vic being confronted by his daughter and finally being caught out with the 'Danny baby' and dodging a potential blow in that of Guardo's girlfriend. I say the Strike Team took up alot of this episode but it was the climax of Shane finally being found out; boy, the structure of the episode was great. It kept building up, throwing a few wrenches in the way to distract the viewer and finally closing with the anticipated revelation of Lem's death by Shane to the man who threatened to kill this person; Vic Mackey.
Amazing acting by Chicklis and Goggins; Vic seemed rather troubled as to kill Shane or not and the directing in that was great; seeking both facial expressions so that the viewer always got the expression of either Vic or Shane when both were arguing. The idea of Vic trying to justify his actions by saying that one was a traitor is far fetched; Vic's crime is just as bad as Lem's as both were cops and good people who were caught in the crap set by 'cop politics' (using Lem to get to Vic for Kavanaugh and Terry being in Justice to trap Vic).
I give this an A; best episode yet.
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Post by Cletus Van Damme on May 9, 2007 11:48:40 GMT -5
The idea of Vic trying to justify his actions by saying that one was a traitor is far fetched; Vic's crime is just as bad as Lem's as both were cops and good people who were caught in the crap set by 'cop politics' (using Lem to get to Vic for Kavanaugh and Terry being in Justice to trap Vic). This last part isnt quite accurate, IMO. In Co-pilot, Terry was introduced as someone who Aceveda brought to the ST to run it if Vic didnt work out, or at the very least be Aceveda's eyes and ears. As we all know, Vic worked out and Terry ended up being Aceveda's eyes and ears on the ST. This led to Terry telling Aceveda about Vic's shady dealings with Rondell, which in turn led to the events in Pilot. Terry never worked for Justice per se, he simply cut a deal with them to 'get something out of it' (his words) for ratting on the ST. Terry is the very definition of the word 'traitor'. Vic and the guys showed him trust and he was plotting with Aceveda the whole time. Lem's case is nothing like that, and its testament to Shane's usual stupidity that he overreacted (yet again) in killing Lem. There's a moment during their scene in Postpartum where Lem says "where's Vic, let's go see Vic", because he knows, as we the viewers know, that Vic would have been able to figure out a solution. Shane's worst moments have been when he's tried to be like Vic. I love Shane and he's fun to watch when he's the hot-headed fuckup that Vic is bailing out of shit. However, he's not and never will be Vic Mackey, and when he tries to play at that level its usually a recipe for disaster (see Antwon or Lem).
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Post by quipfan on May 9, 2007 12:35:53 GMT -5
I gave it a 'b', but it was borderline 'A'... I was asleep at the wheel while this was on and probably missed some dialogue....
Maybe after I watch it again I'll be more in tune with the rest....
Referring to 'cuffs' mention of the 'upcoming' rift between Tina and Danny, if Tina challenges the alpha female in the Barn (Danny), Danny will whip her a$$ to no end... JMO
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Post by forestwhitaker4prz on May 9, 2007 13:13:52 GMT -5
Watch it again when your not asleep...definitely an A. Another important plot point in the episode not too many people are talking about is Vic turning the wheels in his direction to keep his job after the appeal. I enjoyed him playing the other guys claiming he had nothing to lose because he was out of there soon anyway, then working the high ranking city official to keep his daughter's dirty habits out of the paper. "Must be good to be the king." It just goes to show you how amazing this episode was, considering something of that importance is not one of the things we think about after watching Chasing Ghosts.
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Post by Inside Man on May 9, 2007 13:17:08 GMT -5
That powerhouse ending scene almost overshadows the prologue scene between Vic & Antwon. Chiklis was so intense, talk about losing yourself in a character. I swear to God. I will tear your gang apart from the outside in. Bravo, Michael.
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Post by vladinator on May 9, 2007 13:18:07 GMT -5
This episode got the 1st A of the year for me...
It was great seeing Vic back to his old self. He seemed to be 1 step ahead of everyone this episode, which hasn't been the case for some time.
One part that bothered me a little was Ronnie being willing to stay away when Vic confronted Shane. It seems to me that Ronnie would have wanted to be there for that...It would have been more realistic in my opinion if Vic would have gotten Shane there by himself without using Ronnie to do so...just a minor thing in an otherwise great episode.
It also bothered me a little that Danny would let Tina get away with the threats about her new connections. I don't think that this would sit well with Claudette, had Danny brought this up to her it would have been interesting (and still might)...
Hopefully the rest of the season is as good as this episode though...
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Post by mwk ~aka~ Witchykitty on May 9, 2007 14:30:22 GMT -5
Referring to 'cuffs' mention of the 'upcoming' rift between Tina and Danny, if Tina challenges the alpha female in the Barn (Danny), Danny will whip her a$$ to no end... JMO I dunno. Danny seems pretty helpless sometimes. She struggled to make it to Sergant, and when she finally did, she had to skip maternity leave, struggling with Tina in the beginning, and again now. Overall, she's pretty strong to be a female cop and a single mom, but dealing with Tina won't be easy for her, I think. This episode got the 1st A of the year for me... It was great seeing Vic back to his old self. He seemed to be 1 step ahead of everyone this episode, which hasn't been the case for some time. One part that bothered me a little was Ronnie being willing to stay away when Vic confronted Shane. It seems to me that Ronnie would have wanted to be there for that...It would have been more realistic in my opinion if Vic would have gotten Shane there by himself without using Ronnie to do so...just a minor thing in an otherwise great episode. I miss that Vic, too. It seemed like he wasn't in control since he played that trick on Kav and Aceveda early on in S5. Vic wouldn't have wanted Ronnie around when he confronted Shane because they would most surely talk about Terry's murder. Ronnie still doesn't know, right?
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Post by vladinator on May 9, 2007 14:38:43 GMT -5
This episode got the 1st A of the year for me... It was great seeing Vic back to his old self. He seemed to be 1 step ahead of everyone this episode, which hasn't been the case for some time. One part that bothered me a little was Ronnie being willing to stay away when Vic confronted Shane. It seems to me that Ronnie would have wanted to be there for that...It would have been more realistic in my opinion if Vic would have gotten Shane there by himself without using Ronnie to do so...just a minor thing in an otherwise great episode. I miss that Vic, too. It seemed like he wasn't in control since he played that trick on Kav and Aceveda early on in S5. Vic wouldn't have wanted Ronnie around when he confronted Shane because they would most surely talk about Terry's murder. Ronnie still doesn't know, right? I can understand why Vic wouldn't want him around, I just can't understand how Ronnie would accept that...at this point, he has to start being suspicious of everyone, especially Vic & Shane... It wasn't a major flaw, it just seemed a bit off to me that Ronnie would just follow Vic's lead on this...then again he has done so consistently from day 1 so I guess it is in character...
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Post by murt1987 on May 9, 2007 15:24:46 GMT -5
I absolutely loved that episode, I admit I gave it a B but I haven't given any episode an A yet. Which aint a bad thing, its just my own personal grading system which might chnage when I watch it again soon. That scene at the end had me hooked, even my brother who never watches the show was on the edge of his seat :lol: I just have no idea where this is gonna go next, I honestly cant think of what Vic might do now. Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!! One poster above said this was 'Shakesperean'. He's absolutely right I LOVE THIS SHOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by ISaidWhoaDangIt on May 9, 2007 16:45:23 GMT -5
I also loved what Vic said to Julian after the interrogation. After they come out of the womb, God stops playing favorites, or something like that, I am not sure, "God creates all men equal, but once they get out of the womb he starts playing favorites." Fantastic episode. A all the way. E you have to put that in the best line poll this week. That and the line about the dead girl in the hallway, "First we find out the truth, then we figure out what to do with it" Classic! LOVED this episode. Can't wait to see what all Shane can come up with next week against Ronnie and Vic. I have a feeling we're going to be in for a major cliffhanger at the end of this season.
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Post by ISaidWhoaDangIt on May 9, 2007 16:46:21 GMT -5
I don't think he does. I believe Lem found out right before Shane offed him what really went down, but I don't think Ronnie knows.
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Post by JohnnyL on May 9, 2007 18:54:30 GMT -5
What can I say that hasn't already been said by the rest? Classic Shield all the way from start to finish.
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Post by cozmo236 on May 9, 2007 19:17:10 GMT -5
Ronnie does not know that Vic killed Terry. Shane and Vic have never told him and when Lem found out he never told Ronnie either. Whether he has any suspicions about it is not known because he's never asked Vic or Shane about it at all. However, it's definitely possible considering it was a focal point of Kavanaugh's investigation. Now about this episode. This one was definitely an A. The scene between Vic and Shane was great. I don't have much to add about that scene except this. When Vic says to Shane, "You don't get to do what you did for free. You're gonna pay that bill.", he may as well have been talking to himself. If Shane doesn't get to do what he did for free, why should Vic get to do what he did (kill Terry) for free? Vic has not yet paid that bill.
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Post by mackdaddy on May 9, 2007 19:37:24 GMT -5
I also loved what Vic said to Julian after the interrogation. After they come out of the womb, God stops playing favorites, or something like that, I am not sure, "God creates all men equal, but once they get out of the womb he starts playing favorites." Fantastic episode. A all the way. Thanks for the clarification. I have to watch this episode again.
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Post by aussieangel on May 9, 2007 21:26:59 GMT -5
Ok, I'm the 3rd B... I admit it. Once I'd clicked submit I wished I had have selected A. This episode definitely worked it's way back to the shield we know and love status. I knew Vic and Ronnie would start putting the pieces together as soon as Dutch handed Vic the autopsy report. The Vic and Shane confrontation at the end was edge of the seat stuff. I almost hoped Vic would start punching on, but I think if he started he wouldn't stop. Poor Ronnie, I admire his loyalty to Vic, a lot. I'd like to see Ronnie kick Shanes arse when he confronts him. Surely its just a matter of time before Ronnie finds out about Terry, I wonder if he will remain loyal to Vic.
Tina and Danny teaming up just screams cat fight! Danny hasn't liked her since day one, now she has contacts in high places, I'm sure this will worsen. I could see Billings in the front row of the cat fight .... selling tickets!!
I did really like the episode. There was just so much in it, to watch Vic back at work with a thousand things going on around him, I love the way he just gets shit done and handles everything in his stride while he's worrying about a thousand other things.
Vic Mackey is BACK people!! ;D
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