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Post by eclipsepinkfloyd on Apr 12, 2007 20:21:39 GMT -5
I just wanted to say that this is the only show that I know of that has a website like this to just post messages and get other peoples input and ideas. I think this is great how we all get the opprotunity to see how much everyone else enjoys this show. the observations people on here make are great and let me see things that I had not picked up on previously in the episodes, great work everyone. My fiancee and friends made me feel like I was a bit too obsessed with the show but I now see how much everyone else loves it too. The shield is awesome!!!!
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Post by aussieangel on Apr 12, 2007 23:14:33 GMT -5
I agree totally eclipsepinkfloyd!! I love reading how people interpret what happens within the show then speculate on what they think will happen. It is interesting to see how people interpret things differently. Claudette for me is an example, I had completely misread her intentions when she was telling Dutch to follow the truth. I was thinking that after her chat with Assinvader about the body count in farmington, that Claudette was thinking only about cleaning up the barn - putting away the dirty cop (Vic) - that the truth was in the evidence. Even by the time they had Kav's confession, I still didn't believe her intentions were good. Maybe it was just me, it's what the shield has done to me, makes me think outside of all things logical and moral!
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Post by electroshockblues on Apr 13, 2007 3:19:56 GMT -5
I agree totally.
Whilst I also post on IMDB and a couple of other places, this place is my first port of call for any Shield-related stuff. The main reason is that there's a reliably high concentration of polite, intelligent posters and that the mods manage to enforce the rules and keep things in order without being too draconian. Having a direct-line to personell from the show is great as well.
I'm not usually one for fawning or posting about how great a message board community is - I usually post solely to discuss the show - but I just have to say that this is easily the best 'Shield' fan community on the net.
And in order to save my post from being entirely off-topic:
I noticed this too. I also liked the way the camera focussed on Kavanaugh delicately placing his badge and gun on the table - it seemed to bookend Kavanaugh's arc with his first appearance, where he toys with Lem's badge and gun at the end of the episode.
This episode seems to really have polarised people. I was expecting to come here and see unanimously positive reviews, but people seem to either give it an A or a C. Given some of the weak reviews, I was wondering if my opinion would change upon second viewing, but I definitely remain on the 'A' end of the scale.
One thing bothered me ever so slightly though: why wasn't the question of Vic's "backup" gun raised when he was asked to disarm by the Mexicans? The crazy fireman from S2 knew that Vic would have a backup gun. Also, I thought that it would make more sense if Vic was asked to empty both his main gun and his revolver - had he done that it would be easier to buy the idea that the Mexicans forgot about the "one in the chamber".
A minor issue, no doubt, but it irked me a little that Vic's backup gun evaporated from the writers' minds.
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Post by -|E|- on Apr 13, 2007 4:27:01 GMT -5
Those homies were too stoned to think Vic had a 2nd gun.... the one he showed them was so shiny and pretty... And thanks for all the cool things you guys have said about TSR! Chemikalman and all the staff work at making this place what it is... and we appreciate your appreciation!
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Post by jadedgirl on Apr 13, 2007 17:07:15 GMT -5
I have to disagree with badcop. I'm not a Vic enabler and I think that the complete opposite is the case. If Vic got away with it all, that would be a massive cheat. It wouldn't shock me but it would bother me. He has to lose something important to him to make it worthwhile-if that weren't the case, it wouldn't be Shield like. Add to the fact that it's been teased several times that in several different ways that his ways would get him in the end and to not have that happen would just be contradictory. He may do the right thing sometimes but it still doesn't completely justify all the wrong things he's done and some of the people that got hurt in the process.
If everyone else has to pay something for their crimes, then so does Vic. You can't have it both ways-that sword don't cut any other way.
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Post by Bad_Ass_Cop on Apr 13, 2007 21:47:36 GMT -5
When Danny came in to see Claudette, she had her baby with her. I thought to my self "The baby looks half black" Well I watched the episode again ( they always play it twice) and my wife watched it with me. My wife asked me if Danny had a baby by a black man. was it us or did Danny's baby look half black? He didnt at the end of season 5.
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Post by eclipsepinkfloyd on Apr 13, 2007 23:00:46 GMT -5
I have to disagree with badcop. I'm not a Vic enabler and I think that the complete opposite is the case. If Vic got away with it all, that would be a massive cheat. It wouldn't shock me but it would bother me. He has to lose something important to him to make it worthwhile-if that weren't the case, it wouldn't be Shield like. Add to the fact that it's been teased several times that in several different ways that his ways would get him in the end and to not have that happen would just be contradictory. He may do the right thing sometimes but it still doesn't completely justify all the wrong things he's done and some of the people that got hurt in the process. If everyone else has to pay something for their crimes, then so does Vic. You can't have it both ways-that sword don't cut any other way. You say Vic has to lose something important to him. He already has. He lost his family, he lost lem, he lost the money from the money train, and most likely he will lose the team by either forced retirement or some kind. He even lost gilroy who was a close friend of his before this whole thing happened. And I think as a little karmic justice in the world, his kids r autistic. I believe he's lost a lot. Especially losing lem, thats the worst for him
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Post by Maggie1956 on Apr 16, 2007 1:44:08 GMT -5
I was thinking about how Kavanaugh rushed in to confess moments before Emolia gave Claudette what she wanted and I realized that Emolia is screwed. Whether K beat her to the punch so he could nobly expose his own sins or to be a control freak or to save himself from being a dirty cop, he left Emolia guilty of every charge with which Claudette threatened her and having not a scrap with which to bargain for a better deal. Maybe they won't charge Emolia for colluding with Kavanagh, but they won't reward her with a cushy witness protection plan. The weaselly little skank is left with NOTHING, and no protection from her former associates. So much for Kavanaugh's Knight in Shining Armour self-image.
I'm not sure Claudette told Emolia Vic and Kavanaugh had both used and abused her because she really believed it, I think it was just one of those interrogation tricks. Emolia ate it up like Cherry Garcia Ice Cream, so Claudette kept spooning it out.
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Post by eekay on Apr 16, 2007 8:39:12 GMT -5
I'm not sure Claudette told Emolia Vic and Kavanaugh had both used and abused her because she really believed it, I think it was just one of those interrogation tricks. Emolia ate it up like Cherry Garcia Ice Cream, so Claudette kept spooning it out.
I think that Claudette was going that route as much to "break" Kavanaugh as to beak Emolia. Didn't her speech seem a little too theatrical, almost a little too Dutch-like, for her usual style of interrogation? She knew he would be watching from the observation room. And she knew, unlike the other cops in the Barn who kept bringing up his ex-wife to no effect, that the one sure way to get to Kavanaugh was to compare him to Vic. She painted that picture of "poor" Emolia trapped between two equal forces of selfishness, cold-heartedness and immorality on purpose, so that Kavanaugh could see what he really looked like. And having Emolia break down in fear and desperation because of what he, in part, did to her, horrified him so much that he had to go in and just end it. That was the "peace" he was talking about to Vic. He let go of his madness (at least for the moment; we'll see if it resurfaces), while Vic's face at the end showed that he was still clearly driven by his.
So I understand what happened with Kavanaugh and why he went down as quietly as he did; but I have to say that I'm still disappointed by not getting to see the train wreck I was looking so forward to. It seemed to be building up fantastically, though, with Kavanaugh's frantic attempts to keep Dutch and Claudette away from Emolia and his growing realization that he was trapped. But where most trapped beasts are at their craziest when they're cornered, he just rolled over. I guess it's admirable, but it's not what I wanted to see, dammit!!
I am surprised, and slightly touched, that Shane seems to be looking for ways to give himself up. I would have thought that little weasel's self-preservation instincts would have kept his mouth shut no matter how many Guardos were tortured or girlfriends kidnapped. But he actually feels so badly about what he did (and about what the consequences may be for Vic, who's completely lost it in his hunt for revenge) that he may, in the end, have to let it out. Interesting.
I SO did not buy Tina being able to pull Occam's Razor out of her butt without even thinking. But then again I can't believe that the Shield writers would have put something so implausible in one of their shows without a reason. We'll see.
We all knew that Vic was going to get out of this particular mess and that Kavanaugh was going to go down, at least for now --but where the writers once again threw us a curve was that Vic managed to "get out" of this mess without lifting a finger to help himself. As a matter of fact, he did a lot of things which would have been really stupid and damaging if Kavanaugh hadn't been in the Barn blatantly screwing things up right in front of everybody. Think about it: He's warned that unis are at his house, so he avoids them --like a guilty man-- and doesn't go home; he hears that Dutch et al are searching his house and that he's wanted at the Barn for questioning about Lem's death. So what does he do? He heads for the freakin' Mexican border. Twice. Not to avoid questioning, of course --he's just so obssessed with finding Lem's killer that for once he's not thinking with his usual clarity and realizing how bad that looks for him right now. If Kavanaugh hadn't been such a whack-job and a terrible liar, Vic could have really screwed himself. As it was, he was allowed to be AWOL for the whole day and the whole situation was cleared up for him by the time he got back to the Barn.
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Post by ShootFirst on Apr 17, 2007 7:38:26 GMT -5
When Danny came in to see Claudette, she had her baby with her. I thought to my self "The baby looks half black" Well I watched the episode again ( they always play it twice) and my wife watched it with me. My wife asked me if Danny had a baby by a black man. was it us or did Danny's baby look half black? He didnt at the end of season 5. I noticed the same thing. Her baby didn't look completely caucasian. From all implications and things the crew have said in interviews, it's still clear that it's Daddy Vic's. On the topic of Vic's backup piece, I thought it was weird how they didn't think of it. When they asked for his 4506, I thought they would for sure get his revolver but as soo as they didn't ask him to clear the chamber, I knew they wouldn't get the 2nd. Glad they didn't as it made for a great segment. Claudette's role in bringing the Kav/Emolia thing to light did bring back a little respect for her. CCH Pounder plays her role so well as the "right side of things".....often disregarding the popularity of her decisions. Here's one time I was glad to see that side of her.
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Post by -|E|- on Apr 17, 2007 7:58:46 GMT -5
I SO did not buy Tina being able to pull Occam's Razor out of her butt without even thinking. But then again I can't believe that the Shield writers would have put something so implausible in one of their shows without a reason. We'll see. She HAS been studying with Dutch afterall.... he may have told her about Occam's Razor while she was shadowing him one day and was just qizzing her. ? I dunno. I think Dutch's "mentoring technique" (aka Pimpology) is going to hook her. Heh. Hooker.
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Post by novat on Apr 17, 2007 19:16:09 GMT -5
Great episode loved it when Vic when into the Bario's crib. Wish my balls were big as vic's ;D And it looks like we're starting to get some more screen time with Danny and Julian, they haven't really had much ever since season 3. Remember how Julian and Tina were complaining that they wanted more "action", looks like we'll see *spoiler removed by E*
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Post by acc on Apr 26, 2007 14:59:02 GMT -5
A+
Best episode of this season thus far.
A masterful episode. My only gripe with it is that Veritas Vos Liberabit should have remained its title. The episode is *so* completely about the truth, and how liberating the truth can actually be (for practically every character!), that that title should have been kept. Baptism of Fire could be used for practically any episode and is kind of bland.
I'm glad electroshock brought up the Kavanaugh placing his shield down much like Lem's in 5x01 Extraction. What a beautiful send-off for the character. His final lines of dialogue with Vic encapsulated the character perfectly and rounded out his arc with a lot of grace. "I'm at peace. Are you?"
Found it also interesting that Vic confronted the King of the Byz Lats in 6x02--exactly three seasons beforehand, in 3x02 Blood and Water, Vic confronted the Byz Lat King Garza. In that episode, Vic's plan to take Garza down fails because Garza happens to be a serious bad-a$$ who doesn't care about his own life. How ironic and wonderfully poetic that Vic, in his confrontation with the most recent Byz Lat captain, is in Garza's spot, not caring about his own life much as he tries to complete his own mission for Antonio so he can get Guardo all for himself.
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