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Post by eddiekaay on Mar 22, 2006 2:47:19 GMT -5
Shane would do anything for Vic. He is doing what he has been taught and mentored to do. Exactly what I was thinking. Great writing, showing the the student becoming the equal. I agree about the pacing and the ads for Thief -- all these other scenes w/o Lem or Vic were sorta incomplete.
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Post by shrudy on Mar 22, 2006 3:26:23 GMT -5
i have a question. at the end, vic says he's gonna kill whoever did this. but wouldn't everyone assume that lem killed himself to avoid jail and implicating anyone else? i mean, who else would even have a motive to kill lem except for himself and the strike team?
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Post by sykopath on Mar 22, 2006 6:44:13 GMT -5
^ I was wondering the exact same thing.
And another thing I wondered is what if Shane didn't get to Lem first? It just seemed too perfect that he was NOT getting tailed. We all know that Kav would CERTAINLY have had someone stay as close to Shane as possible....... Not saying there's some conspiracy going on... but it just seemed strange.
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Post by fanatic1950 on Mar 22, 2006 6:47:25 GMT -5
I don't think Vic knew what Shane was going to do, hell Shane didn't know what he was going to do until Lem said he was not going to Mexico so in effect Lem sealed his fate when he decided prison was his only option.
Pesonally now I feel they can wrap up the Shield in the next 10 episodes and end the show. Vic still has his forced retirement coming up and think Assinvader will still force that issue, He wants Vic off the force. My wife and I can't wait until they come back with the last 10 episodes. Right from the very first episode we both said we would be happy with at least 4 years worth of the Shield so we consider seasons 5 and 6 just a bonus from Shawn Ryan.
This show better have multiple emmy and golden globe nominations next year, some of the best televison in the last 3 months has been this show.
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Post by Dead Armenian on Mar 22, 2006 7:11:52 GMT -5
On second viewing, it does not appaer as though Shane touched Lem's car. It's VERY hard to tell. I don't think his prints will show up. I was thinking about tire tracks...any chance of that?
Pretty powerful the way they didn't have the usual music cut over the final scenes. They just left it "empty" for sound - but there was Tina wailing, Vic radiating rage...wow.
Billings can really fill some scenes! Enjoyed his role. The mutual "a**hole" sign-off between Dutch and him was great stuff. Now they're gonna work Lem's case together?
For those who know the LAPD Rampart scandal, who more lines up with Officer Perez? Shane or Vic? Somebody posted earlier about how so much of what has happened ties into Shane's actions...good point.
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Post by fju2112 on Mar 22, 2006 8:04:36 GMT -5
a couple thoughts/responses:
- the hooker storyline might have been old on the surface but it was really meant, IMHO, to highlight the differences between Billings & Dutch, which led to Dutch almost transferring out and eventually him taking Tina under his wing.
- Someone said "no one" gets away with anything on the show. Look at all the stuff Vic has gotten away with?? Even Aceveda...
- Anyone notice the shot on Vic's face when he said to Emolia "if you had made different choices..." I know it’s been mentioned, but what a perfect shot of Vic’s hypocrisy right there.
- It’s so sad that Lem was willing to give HIMSELF up for the money train and Terry’s murder, not even mentioning Vic, anything to save his family & keep himself in harm’s way just so it would be over, and the conscience of the team is the one who dies in the end.
- Tina crying…ignoring Dani’s advice about never crying in front of the boys.
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Post by mackdaddy on Mar 22, 2006 8:32:25 GMT -5
Only a show like the Shield can pull off something like this. Shane always wanted to be like Vic, but he's out of control on his own. Lem looked so happy to see that sandwich, and Mr. Teeth feeds him a grenade instead. In preparing for this week's finale, I watched most of Seaon 1 on DVD. It had been a while and to see how these guys were, how tight and together, and Mackey spinning all sorts of stuff, and then see a surprise like this. May God have mercy on Shane's soul, he'll regret it. All I can think of is Lem's beatdown of Hector in S1, still one of my favorites. Not sure if I give this ep an A or not, still have not voted. Also, what about the other surprise last night; Billings owns the vending machines, look on Dutch's face, priceless!
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Post by shieldfan123 on Mar 22, 2006 10:02:28 GMT -5
I think it was Vic's idea to kill Lem if he didn't want to go to Mexico. Wasn't it Vic who told Shane to keep one of the grenades when they raided the apartment? (someone who taped or Tivoed it check that for me.) If Shane had done it on his own wouldn't Vic immediately suspect Shane because of this? Vic also seemeed very worried about what to do if Lem wasn't on board for the Mexico plan. Vic and Shane seemed to have the same demeanor while they were "waiting" for Lem with Ronnie. His statement about finding who did it could have just been for Ronnie's benifit....
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Post by cozmo236 on Mar 22, 2006 10:10:18 GMT -5
I think it was Vic's idea to kill Lem if he didn't want to go to Mexico. Wasn't it Vic who told Shane to keep one of the grenades when they raided the apartment? (someone who taped or Tivoed it check that for me.) If Shane had done it on his own wouldn't Vic immediately suspect Shane because of this? Vic also seemeed very worried about what to do if Lem wasn't on board for the Mexico plan. Vic and Shane seemed to have the same demeanor while they were "waiting" for Lem with Ronnie. His statement about finding who did it could have just been for Ronnie's benifit.... I don't recall Vic ever saying anything like that to Shane. I think that would've just given everything away and would've been way too obvious. I believe I was one of if not the first person on here to suggest that Vic knew about killing Lem. That was just my initial gut reaction. Now I think it would be more interesting television if Vic didn't know but he still has to face that he created Shane and made Shane think that it was okay to murder if it was in service of the team.
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Post by oops28 on Mar 22, 2006 10:17:24 GMT -5
I first was annoyed by Tina crying, but then I was glad she did, I think she was expressing out loud what everyone was feeling inside. I liked how for a moment while everyone was just standing there in shock, all you could hear was her wailing.
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Post by Inside Man on Mar 22, 2006 10:24:58 GMT -5
Shawn and the guys followed through with the promise of the "Of Mice and Lem" title. My sense of relief and security that nothing bad would happen to Lem lasted just just 7 days.
If I close my eyes, I can almost see Shane saying "Look away, Lem. Look far over the river."
Dammit, dammit, dammit.
What a great f*cking season. Damn, I can't even put the seasons in order of 'best.'
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Post by sphinx on Mar 22, 2006 10:26:01 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Lem just a figment of some writers' imaginations, displayed to us as an array of colored pixels? How can you people get so shook up over this?
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Post by personacom on Mar 22, 2006 10:29:51 GMT -5
Absolutely fantastic episode! I am shocked and saddened. Yes, I knew Shane was going to do *something* as soon as he pulled into that dark spot with Lem, but I still didn't think he'd have the balls to kill Lem. After all, Shane is a coward. Notice that he killed Lem in the most impersonal way he could have. No intimacy there...just drop a grenade in his lap. Sad.
I loved the Billings/Dutch stuff, too. That will be an interesting dynamic. I loved the fact that the "smarmy" Dutch returned, using a criminal's information to try to get in Tina's pants. Dutch really is pathetic in a number of ways. Billings has suddenly become ballsy after his failed attempt at Captain. Very funny.
I think it was clear that Vic did not know about Shane killing Lem. I wasn't sure about Danny's baby thing...they never came out and said Vic was the father, although it looks that way.
Aceveda... man! Now there is a guy who gets away with all sorts of stuff, playing both sides of the fence. Wow.
I actually like these 90 minute episodes. Someone else indicated that the pacing always seems off on these long ones... I like the fact that they have some time to let the scenes play out... show more nuance and emotion. ... It allows the actors to stretch I think.
An excellent finale, proving again why The Shield is the best show on televison. Great, great stuff! If next January starts the last eps of the show, I hope we get more than 10... WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW
PC
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Post by oops28 on Mar 22, 2006 10:30:14 GMT -5
really, he's just a character, I didn't know that! Thanks for opening up our eyes!
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Post by mackdaddy on Mar 22, 2006 12:55:36 GMT -5
The toughest part about seeing Lem go that way was he looked so happy that Shane brought him a sandwich, he had that look on his face, now that's a friend for ya, then bang, he's gone.
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Post by -|E|- on Mar 22, 2006 13:26:43 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Lem just a figment of some writers' imaginations, displayed to us as an array of colored pixels? How can you people get so shook up over this? I don't know what we would do without such astute observations! sphinx wrote: Because this story is important to us. We love these characters, and if you really don't understand it, why did you join a message forum dedicated to The Shield and its characters? Yes, you posted this earlier in the "what happened in your home tonight" thread, and I already replied to you there. Thank you for deleting the earlier one and reposting it here now in this thread!! I guess you felt the need to have other comments directed toward you? I mean, posting something like that in a forum dedicated to such characters falls within my definition of flame bait. edit: added my quote from the other thread
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Post by bobloblaw on Mar 22, 2006 13:33:07 GMT -5
=Shane telling Vic and Ronnie "no, we'll wait" for Lem. I don't think I've hated any character on this show (Mara included) more than Shane at that precise moment. I thought about that too. I believe the words "God what a f**kin a**hole" came out of my mouth at that moment, because I realized he was actually gonna lie to Vic and Ronnie about it.
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Post by fju2112 on Mar 22, 2006 13:36:23 GMT -5
i knew as soon as shane looked nervous when they pulled into that dark spot that he was going to kill him, but i didn't want to believe it. i was sitting htere and just kept saying "he's gonna kill Lem..what an a**hole...what an a**hole"...incredible stuff. shawn ryan & the crew did a great job in NOT making this about shock value, but adding yet another element to the show to play itself out next year.
my thinking is next season, the last two men standing are ronnie & vic, and they go their separate ways. no big bang ending for vic, no jail time; he has to live with himself and the guilt he'll always feel for letting down lem, and leading shane through the years, grooming him to do the job.
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Post by badcop187 on Mar 22, 2006 14:50:24 GMT -5
Here is my question. Well announced spoilers said -spoiler removed by E- Obviously Lem died, -spoiler removed by E-
Badcop!!! CC and chem will kill you [AND me] if you leak spoilers onto other parts of the forum; no matter how "well announced" they are. If you didn't read about it in the "Inside Info" board, it's an "outside spoiler" and should only be discussed in the Snitches board. Glen's "inside info" can, of course, be discussed anywhere on TSR.
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Post by wgjones3 on Mar 22, 2006 16:09:16 GMT -5
One thing I thought about when I watched the end again - almost anytime you see some late model, out-of-production car in a TV show, the car is either going to get crashed, blown up, or shot up by the end. Last night, Vic was rollin' in the blue Charger, Shane had the new Dakota, and Lem was in that 4+ year old Oldsmobile Intrigue. Though, when I first saw Lem in the Olds, I thought it was that Intrepid that they drove to Mexico and had to use the bumper stickers to hide the bullet holes and get across the border.
I'm still in shock a day later and I can't wait for the 'back ten' to come on.
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