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Post by Cletus Van Damme on Mar 2, 2006 9:51:58 GMT -5
Great episode... top notch acting all around, with a nice tense ending to boot.
I loved the mocking look Vic gave Kananaugh, and I ached when Vic and Lem were looking at each other in a 'f*ck, we went too far' sort of way at the end.
Goddamn Kavanaugh, how do you justify signing the death warrant for 4 cops (=putting them in Antwon's jail) because two of them overheard you with your wife? Surely that's at last as bad as, say, killing a snitch.
Kavanaugh's gone off the deep end. I mean seriously derailed 'n shit. Sometimes I even find myself feeling sorry for the character, but this has got to stop. And I hope Vic is the one that puts an end to it.
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Post by jwc53531 on Mar 2, 2006 20:12:05 GMT -5
this was a great episode for many reasons - but here's why I think it's such a pivotal episode in The Shield canon:
Dutch and Kav are in the car and Dutch asks Kav "What do you know about an Armenian money train?" - to me, that's the the absolute best line of the show (see how we always concentrate on the funny lines and not necessarily the ones that carry a lot of weight) and it clearly points to where the show will go and that is towards the ultimate showdown between intellectualizing Dutch and Vic and the ST - which is how the show should go out when it finally does
now skeptics always say that Dutch has 'no evidence' - and I say 'so what' - he's a detective - that's his character - he has some insight into Terry's death via Aceveda (and now the fact that Kav is revisiting the whole thing) and he has a hunch about the ST's involvment in the MT - no evidence to be sure but for Dutch hunches are important - just like how he didn't find Sadie truthful - he's relied on hunches all his career - and now he's starting to link things together - slowly but he is moving forward - to me, when I look at the whole of the show, characters like Monica and Kavanaugh and Antwon are just interlopers (and I'm not using that in a negative way) - they come in, provide some excitement and then move on - and this season, Kav is no different - he's clearly unbalanced and will self-destruct very soon - thus leaving the Strike Team back in control (although who knows what the team will look like by the end of the season) - if there is going to be any resolution and closure it will come from The Barn itself - the writers have carefully laid out the Dutch/Vic battle for four plus seasons now and it's only fitting that we are headed (eventually) down that road - I was really happy to hear Dutch ask Kav that question and I am extremely jazzed that the writers saw fit to include that little gem of a scene along with all the other awesome material - we as the audience see the world pretty much through Vic's eyes - Dutch doesn't know what we know but that doesn't mean he's not interested in finding out - that's his job - and even though it's still sort of on the back burner all this information floating around is starting to come together in Dutch's head - he would like nothing better than to beat Vic - someway, somehow - it's not so much about capturing a bad cop (Kavanaugh's fatal flaw is blindness to everything else) - it's just about getting the better of Vic in the end
the one irksome thing is the stupid attorneys (Becca and now Corrine's lawyer)
still, an A from me
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Post by Dead Armenian on Mar 2, 2006 20:30:28 GMT -5
The intensity of the shift in momentum blew me away...one moment, Vic and Lem have it all on Kav with the old "let's spy on the interrogation room" trick...then, Kav is on them and everything is going to hell.
Great ep. A.
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Post by jimmycracker on Mar 2, 2006 22:02:15 GMT -5
First, things I didn't like. Grenade story didn't seem entirely believable/Shield-ish. Kavanaugh brushing his teeth at the beginning (every show/movie starts with someone brushing their teeth, dammit; doesn't say ANYTHING about the character at all, which is what scenes are about). Don't think it was entirely necessary to have the show in Kav's point of view. Maybe it was good. I'm not sure yet.
Anyway, A- for me. Lem going in the cage, that stung. Hard. I just wish they'd got to this episode sooner and didn't have as many filler/setup episodes.
Yeah, everything was amazing, but the scene with the salvadorans and the grenades... eh, that wasn't spectacular. I'd prefer if it was drugs or something.
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Post by fju2112 on Mar 2, 2006 22:10:22 GMT -5
i think lem being in a prison in which he clearly doesn't belong and would never be placed in real life is more than a nitpicky detail. they're asking us to suspend too much disbelief on which to base interaction on last season's main villain and a member of the strike team, if it goes down that way. i just hope they have a really good explanation for it. besides, this is an issue for an episode that hasn't even aired yet, so it's not one or two weeks after the fact and we're just figuring it out now; i think we're all bracing for disappointment if the writers don't do a good job explaining how this could happen.
as for kav having a photo of terry lying dead...that would be a file photo after the cops came and found terry's dead body....why is it that hard to believe?
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Post by qb on Mar 2, 2006 22:47:16 GMT -5
First, things I didn't like. Grenade story didn't seem entirely believable/Shield-ish. Kavanaugh brushing his teeth at the beginning (every show/movie starts with someone brushing their teeth, dammit; doesn't say ANYTHING about the character at all, which is what scenes are about). Don't think it was entirely necessary to have the show in Kav's point of view. Maybe it was good. I'm not sure yet. Anyway, A- for me. Lem going in the cage, that stung. Hard. I just wish they'd got to this episode sooner and didn't have as many filler/setup episodes. Yeah, everything was amazing, but the scene with the salvadorans and the grenades... eh, that wasn't spectacular. I'd prefer if it was drugs or something. The opening scenes of Kav at home, waking up as we all do and brushing his teeth... that is to remind us he's human like us. Sitting alone, eating his breakfast - that ALMOST made me feel sad for him. His wedding ring in a special place of honor. As the ep progressed, we learn a lot about what made him the fanatic he is--not the why, but more the what. Then Lem, good soul that he truly is, saves Kav from the grenade. All of this rushing toward a horrifying end... the brutal attack against a frightened and confused Lem. I went from feeling a little compassion for Kav to hating him more than ever. How excellent! That's what a great script does.
Curious, though...how many married guys take off their rings at night? That did seem unusual to me. (I thought they only took them off in bars)
The grenade thing was something different from the drive-bys. The Shield is always giving us interesting methods for murder. What could be easier, and more frightening to people, than a grenade coming over the fence or through a window? With all of the terrorism in the news, it made perfect sense to me. I just want those damn corpses to stop looking so friggin' peaceful!!
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Post by Six Paul Eleven on Mar 2, 2006 22:52:27 GMT -5
i think lem being in a prison in which he clearly doesn't belong and would never be placed in real life is more than a nitpicky detail. they're asking us to suspend too much disbelief on which to base interaction on last season's main villain and a member of the strike team, if it goes down that way. i just hope they have a really good explanation for it. besides, this is an issue for an episode that hasn't even aired yet, so it's not one or two weeks after the fact and we're just figuring it out now; i think we're all bracing for disappointment if the writers don't do a good job explaining how this could happen. I agree - I wasn't trying to be a nitpicker in my previous post - I guess it is more disappointment if that does in fact impact how things ultimately turn out; it just seems its too easy/convenient. By no means do I expect to be watching a reality show.
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Post by Inside Man on Mar 3, 2006 18:50:44 GMT -5
I really liked the Kavanaugh-in-the-morning montage. It was a little trite, having been done before like, hundreds of times. Looking back on it, I get the feeling of Morgan Freeman in Se7en, where he came home to his little apartment and everything was laid out just so. He threw his switchblade at the dartboard to clear his head.
Kavanaugh, I see the same way. The way his drawers were organized, the ring directly in the center of the square plate. I certainly got the feel of a methodical, ordered everything-must-go-in-its-place man.
But of course, everything unraveled on him in a purely Shieldian way. In that ending, he lost all control. Wow, what a powerful scene and Forrest nailed it. His voice acting and the screeching, howling delivery was as powerful as Sean Penn's horrified wails in Mystic River, which was absolutely top-notch.
Great freakin episode.
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Post by dtpollitt on Mar 3, 2006 20:46:53 GMT -5
I really liked the Kavanaugh-in-the-morning montage. It was a little trite, having been done before like, hundreds of times. Looking back on it, I get the feeling of Morgan Freeman in Se7en, where he came home to his little apartment and everything was laid out just so. He threw his switchblade at the dartboard to clear his head. Kavanaugh, I see the same way. The way his drawers were organized, the ring directly in the center of the square plate. I certainly got the feel of a methodical, ordered everything-must-go-in-its-place man. But of course, everything unraveled on him in a purely Shieldian way. In that ending, he lost all control. Wow, what a powerful scene and Forrest nailed it. His voice acting and the screeching, howling delivery was as powerful as Sean Penn's horrified wails in Mystic River, which was absolutely top-notch. Great freakin episode. I don't like agreeing with you on EVERYTHING, but it seems like not a lot of people really enjoyed the opening scene with Kavanaugh brushing his teeth and getting ready in the morning... I in fact LOVED the opening scene, Yes, Inside Straight, I thought it was a great nod to his methodical ways and how his life really gets turned upside down when it is out of order...Sadie, the Strike Team, etc. He CANNOT tolerate his life being unorganized and in HIS control. This 3 episode burst is going to be a damned sprint to the explosive end. --Dan
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Post by jimmycracker on Mar 3, 2006 21:14:03 GMT -5
Again though, it kind of pisses me off how many filler episodes we've had. Every episode of season 2 I can rewatch over and over and over—it's just amazing. I fear when I pick up this dvd I'll only be inclined to watch 3/4 episodes, sorta like season 4. I really don't think we needed 'man inside' or some of the other ones.
Still, nothin' better on TV.
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Post by -|E|- on Mar 4, 2006 9:07:02 GMT -5
I loved this episode! We always know what Vic is saying to people, and what the ST is planning -- but in this ep, because Kav didn't hear what Vic said to Emoilia, we didn't hear it either. I replayed that scene over and over with the volume at 100% just to try to make out anything, and I heard Vic say something similar to, "as long as you ..." before Kav interrupts him. Anyway, I love not knowing what he said to her. Do you think we'll find out next week? And we always see the Strike Team suiting up for a bust, but this time we were as surprised as Kav was to see them ready to head out with Emolia. I just liked it a lot; a diff. perspective on the Barn. Without having seen things from Kav's point of view in this ep, I'm not sure his dirty deal with Antwon would be all that believable coming from that character. But we watched him snap. We saw his methodical way of getting ready in the morning (I mean, who now thinks he does the exact same thing every morning; we didn't know that before), his conflicted emotions toward his ex, and the rage that his exposed vulnerability lead to. I think the looks that Kav and Vic exchanged were some of the best acting I've ever seen. We didn't need words to know Vic was saying, "Yeah, I saw the WHOLE thing, and I know how to get to you now," and Kav was saying, "You dirty bastard -- that's the last straw!! I'm gonna pop Lem RIGHT NOW!" God, you can just SEE Kav decide to arrest Lem at that moment by the look on his face; just as clearly as if he had stated it with vocabulary. I am both dreading and fully amped about these last 3 eps, cuz face it; this is the end of S5 no matter what the suits say. Season 6 will start next Jan....
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Post by axeman61 on Mar 4, 2006 23:44:10 GMT -5
I loved that little bit too. When Kav had that irrational look on his face and his eyes dart between Vic and Lem. If the future didn't blink in your head at that moment, you'd have slapped yourself for not seeing it.
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Post by acc on Mar 26, 2007 13:08:16 GMT -5
I give 5x08 Kavanaugh a B+. Not an A because I agree that some of the pacing in the early part of the episode is a little off, but nothing too bad or anything.
5x08 Kavanaugh is the only episode of The Shield that follows a single character around. Intelligently, Shawn Ryan knew that if this concept--which had apparently been an idea that the writers had had up their sleeves for a long time--were to work, it would have to be an "outsider" character for it to have the correct impact. Kavanaugh being followed around is a great way to revitalize the character after a couple of episodes where his arc seems kind of locked and immobile.
The reemergence of Kavanaugh's wife (or just emergence for us as fans) was something that at the time I wasn't sure I liked or not. On one hand it seemed logical but on the other hand it seemed kind of easy. What the writers did with it, however, in the following episodes is really what made the arc work and ripen.
jwc nails the best line of the episode, which is Dutch's to Jon: "What do you know about an Armenian Money Train?" This is another example of the tightness of this series. For two seasons this issue was buried under seemingly a mountain of things. Yet Dutch's suspicions of Vic and his guys--which are expressed to Aceveda in 3x14 All In, that Vic knows who ripped the Money Train off and is protecting them--are made greater with the passage of time. After all, why is Vic so overprotective of himself with regards to this issue that he decides to make Dutch a joke again in the Barn? Dutch must intuit that Vic has something very serious to hide with all of this and of course he's correct. I think that a Dutch-Vic showdown is inevitable. I just hope the writers are finally willing to pull the trigger on this very soon. Dutch has been on Vic's case before. Told by Aceveda about Aceveda's own suspicions about Terry's death in early Season 1; assigned to Gilroy's hit-and-run in late Season 1; assigned to the Money Train case at the end of Season 2; and, now, assigned to finding Lem's killer at the end of Season 5. At some point Vic's luck is going to run out and I myself believe that Dutch, after several previous run-ins, will finally entrap Vic in some considerably inescapable way.
Forest Whitaker's performance as Jon is stellar and keeps the audience believing in whatever he does. His manhandling of Dutch in the bathroom, his look of shock at Sadie, asking, "Which Sadie am I talking to?" Everything is very well-drawn by Whitaker as he seems to dig up all of the repressed feelings and anxieites Jon has been carrying around for such a long time.
The image of Vic and Lem running out of the observation room is another mirror image, of Vic and Lem running out in 3x05 Mum, so Aceveda won't catch them. In Season 3 it worked, but in Season 5 it failed. It's a demonstration that the old rules have been revoked and the things that used to work for Vic in the past are now failing him. His smug look at Kavanaugh is the finishing blow to Lem. It's what sends Kavanaugh after Lem, knowing for sure now that the two of them know the truth about he and his ex-wife. It's a marvelous confrontation, made all the richer because of Lem saving Kavanaugh's life only moments beforehand.
The introduction of the grenades of the Salvadorans, and of Guardo the psychotic killer, are prime examples of foreshadowing of course, and the storyline works tremendously as the Salvadorans bomb DEA cars and help Shane decide on how to kill Lem.
And, finally, I agree with you, jwc, that Kavanaugh's fatal flaw is his blindness to everything but getting the better of Vic. Unlike David, who always had shifting loyalties and somewhat conflicting agendas, Kavanaugh has none of that--which could have made him very one-dimensional but really establishes him as a more dogged, relentless foe for Vic than anyone he had ever faced before.
And Antwon's return reminded me of how much I missed his character. The whole season turns to greatness with the threat of Lem being sent up to be killed by 1-Niners. (Those who criticized the lack of realism in this here were provided with good logic later on--even if Lem weren't to go to Lompoc and even if he is in protective custody like he should be, it's, as Shane says, "a joke" and Antwon's too powerful a man behind bars for Lem to eventually escape. It's interesting that this arc has now been imitated in real life, with the recent border agent being sent to prison, and beaten up very badly by the very same people in prison that he had been charged with imprisoning on the outside.)
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Post by eclipsepinkfloyd on Jan 31, 2008 21:02:27 GMT -5
Did anyone else notice that when Guardo tossed the dud grenade on the floor that Emolia had to put back together, Kavanaugh asked vic how he knew he was bluffing, Vic replied "once you pull the pin on a grenade, theres no going back." What a great bit of foreshadowing there. Its amazing how what seems to be a small line in the middle of an episode can take on a whole new meaning after the end of the season
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Post by acc on Mar 15, 2008 13:05:31 GMT -5
Exceptionally true, eclipsepinkfloyd. It's like Lem's lines in 3x06 Posse Up--"Maybe the Money Train should never have happened"--and 3x07 Safe--"I really don't like this." After the season concludes, you look back and see little lines and scenes such as this as superb foreshadowing whether they were intentionally so or not on the part of the writers.
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Post by guy6324 on Mar 16, 2008 12:23:27 GMT -5
And we always see the Strike Team suiting up for a bust, but this time we were as surprised as Kav was to see them ready to head out with Emolia. I just liked it a lot; a diff. perspective on the Barn. Without having seen things from Kav's point of view in this ep, I'm not sure his dirty deal with Antwon would be all that believable coming from that character. But we watched him snap. We saw his methodical way of getting ready in the morning (I mean, who now thinks he does the exact same thing every morning; we didn't know that before), his conflicted emotions toward his ex, and the rage that his exposed vulnerability lead to. I think the looks that Kav and Vic exchanged were some of the best acting I've ever seen. We didn't need words to know Vic was saying, "Yeah, I saw the WHOLE thing, and I know how to get to you now," and Kav was saying, "You dirty bastard -- that's the last straw!! I'm gonna pop Lem RIGHT NOW!" God, you can just SEE Kav decide to arrest Lem at that moment by the look on his face; just as clearly as if he had stated it with vocabulary. I really liked this episode, particularly the morning montage. In that short scene you really get a feel for Kavanaugh's personality. Everything he did was precise and methodical. He did not even seem to enjoy the oatmeal he ate. He was just doing that so he could refuel his body. In this scene you really see that Kavanaugh has no family, no personal life, no personal entanglements, nothing. It is all about the job and that is the way he likes it. When Kavanaugh snaps after Vic and Lem spy on him, you really see a change in his personality. Before, bringing down Vic was just business. He wanted to bring him down but there was nothing personal about it. Now that I think about it, I agree that Kavanaugh's deal with Mitchell would not have made sense without this episode from his point of view.
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Post by Bad_Ass_Cop on Mar 22, 2008 17:46:05 GMT -5
I also liked the opening scene where he woke up in the morning, brushing his teeth, made his breakfast... Made me kinda miss being a bachelor. Something about that whole scene showed how really alone us cops can feel at times.
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