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Post by Cletus Van Damme on Jan 25, 2006 17:45:16 GMT -5
What do you suppose it is that we hate? I disliked her from day one. She has a whiny, weasely look--which is exactly how she turned out to be. She's really no better than some of the skanky street snitches. There are two main reasons that I hate Mara: (a) She's one of those people who are so weak that they're dangerous. (b) She is sickeningly self centered, only cares for herself.
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Post by jwc53531 on Jan 25, 2006 21:46:24 GMT -5
another episode that pushes the major story along - which is a good thing - but, like most of S3, the supporting stories are pretty weak - so a B from me I felt we got one very important piece of information: it's the Mara/Shane relationship that is gonna be the weak link in the end - she knows so much and you can just see Kavanaugh coming after her (cuz no way is Corrine gonna turn on Vic) and you have to wonder what Shane is gonna do (I'm leaning to him becoming a widower) also - what about the scene in the ST room (notice that Ronnie swept it for bugs) with Vic recounting to Lem the whole Terry story - was Vic just telling that for Kavanaugh's sake (because Lem knows the actual truth) or was Vic actually lying to Lem about went down [Note: JWC posted a link to a rather risque site featuring... ah..."compromising" celebrity photos. Apparently Michelle Hicks is among them. With his permission, we are removing the link (after adding it to our own personal favorites! ) because of proboards rules regarding pornography and nude photos. If you're curious...you might want to contact JWC privately. He probably has a lot more where that one came from... no wonder he doesn't have time to post very often... too busy cleaning his keyboard. Ahem. -CC ]
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Post by jimmycracker on Jan 26, 2006 0:36:00 GMT -5
Great episode. The dialogue was some of the best I've heard. But yeah, the supporting stories were a little bit weak. Just a little.
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Post by Cletus Van Damme on Jan 26, 2006 2:00:26 GMT -5
However, sloppy excuse to have the face-to-face scene-- Kavanaugh has been accomplishing a lot behind the scenes, to expose himself up front to Vic this early wasn't for strong enough a reason. I think that the reason for the face-to-face was so that Kavanaugh could experience for himself what Aceveda told him about Vic lying to your face and making you doubt yourself. That was why he made that sly chuckle after their meeting.
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Post by axeman61 on Jan 26, 2006 2:01:05 GMT -5
One of the pivotal scenes to this episode's main storyline was eerily reminiscent of Season 2, Episode 1 of The Wire. Sadly, that takes away from my overall impression of the episode. Shame, because it was a really good one. What was that scene?
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Post by arne on Jan 26, 2006 3:59:36 GMT -5
Rated it B+ - I didn't rate it A because I'm with those of you who think the supporting stories are a little lacking so far, although I almost expected that to happen, knowing that there's gonna be a stronger focus on the main arc this (final) season.
One thing about Mara: yeah, we all hate her, she's a self-centered, manipulative bitch, we all know that. We'd love to see her get whacked. But I must say I was glad she finally reappeared. Before I get tarred and feathered for saying so: she was SUCH a big issue in Season 3 (dipping into the money train cash, the whole Tavon incident, her obvious hate for Vic even though he saved not only Shane's ass, but also hers, and eventually being the reason for Vic and Shane splitting up which was the last nail in the Strike Team's coffin, though just temporarily). I mean, as much as we hate to accept it, she's Shane's wife. She's a part of his life. She's the mother of his son. She could give Kavanaugh a lot of dirt on the whole (former) Strike Team. Mara is too important a character, in terms of drama, to just push her aside.
I think it was okay to just see her once in Season 4 (Shane having sent her "out of town" when Antwon started to threaten her life was a reasonable explanation for her absence last season), but now, with things about to come full circle, Mara had to return. I would have freaked out if they just dropped her character. It just wasn't possible. And hey, we all need someone to hate. ;D
There's a Vic quote still ringing in my head, from Season 3... "She may kiss you in all the right places, but when the time has come, she'll turn on you, too" (Vic to Shane). From what was foreshadowed in 5x03, I'm coming to believe that Vic might have been horribly wrong. I don't think she'll turn on Shane. I think that when Kavanaugh finally comes to her (even though he has no reason to right now, he will - his main target is Vic, but remember he wants to bring down the WHOLE team - Kavanugh is a guy who won't stop before he played each and every possible card), she'll try to cover Shane's ass as good as she can and try to turn things around so that Shane gets a free pass, but Vic goes down, so she finally gets her wish and Vic won't be in their lives anymore. I don't know exactly HOW she'll try to pull that off, but I guess she will. With the influence she has on Shane, and with Shane's feelings of guilt about Terry's murder obviously coming back to haunt him, she could actually reach her goal.
Up till now, Kavanaugh never said a word about the money train heist - even though he should know about the suspicions Aceveda and Dutch had. Kavanaugh seems to be very well informed. Yet, he seems to be entirely focused on Terry's murder. Holy crap, if Mara starts talking about the money... okay, there's still the problem of finding any hard evidence, but I can't wait for Kavanaugh's first meeting with Mara nonetheless.
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Post by fju2112 on Jan 26, 2006 8:12:56 GMT -5
Excellent point! And, Forest Whitaker is just the kind of actor that can pull it off. Kavanaugh may be mentally ill, but I think it's more like "crazy like a fox". However, it looks as if he screwed up and blew his cover with Corinne. Was it intentional? It was cool that Corinne immediately went to Vic and mentioned the incident. didn't she go to Vic because he told her to come to him if anything seemed suspicious, giving her the head's up about IAD? I think without that warning, Corrine probably would have had her suspicions about the guy in other ways and not even gone to Vic.
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Post by fju2112 on Jan 26, 2006 8:20:25 GMT -5
arne, good points - there are so many different ways this could go...even though i wasn't surprised to see Mara, we all know they re-introduced her for a reason.
We haven't even mentioned the Tavon thing. No one ever found out about that, but Vic, Shane, and Mara all know about it. Small potatoes compared to Terry's murder and the money train, but still, it's out there.
I hope they don't bring the money train back into this. I know it could be interesting but they already spent an entire season on it, never mind the planning in season 2 before it took place. I always wanted them to finally just end that storyline w/ the end of season 3 and move on.
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Post by jwc53531 on Jan 26, 2006 11:23:38 GMT -5
sorry, CC
I had forgetten that line of Vic's about Mara, Arne - good catch and probably pretty right on - Mara knows about at least some of the MT cash and probably suspects that there is much more going on with the ST (despite what Shane says) and she pretty much hates Vic - and, as you point out, Kavanaugh wants the whole team and it looks like he'll use any means necessary to accomplish his goal - obviously he has some weak links of his own (I'm sure his 'divorce' will come into play via Vic) and it will be an interesting battle of the wits - like you, I'm glad Mara is back in the story - she'll definately liven things up
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Post by amishmobster on Jan 28, 2006 0:04:01 GMT -5
i think this episode was the best so far. why, you might ask? well first off, the episode wasn't overloaded with lem's storyline, i found myself getting bored the first 2 episodes. next, i really like the confrontations between Kavanaugh and aceveda, i also like how he is trying to weasel into corrines life. further, i liked the strike team having to do stuff legal, since lem is wired, some of the stuff was funny. i liked the story at the beginning, classic. i am glad mara's back, since when she was introduced in season three she added a lot and personally i thought it was a big mistake that she was only in one scene in season 4. don't worry i wouldn't touch that skank with a ten foot pole and i still think her character is a bitch, but she does make the show more interesting. there is other stuff but i can't remember it since i haven't seen this episode since tuesday.
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Post by Teri on Jan 28, 2006 0:26:22 GMT -5
Very good episode! Every minute had something going on to move the story forward, and it's fun to have eps like that where you really feel like you're getting somewhere. (IMO, 'Lost' could take a hint!) Anyway.... But because I'm such a latecomer to posting since I watched the ep tonight (Friday), mostly everything I was going to mention was already covered by arne, jwc, catpurrson, and others. So, good work guys!!!! Things I'd like to add.... Kavanaugh and Corrine - accident or not? Imagine this--Kav knows Lem is probably going to tell Vic and Vic is going to be covering his tracks, possibly including talking to his ex-wife. So perhaps he 'blows his cover' with Corrine so that if she starts acting weird and cautious around him, Kav will then know that Vic knows and that Corrine is involved. Did that make sense? It's basically a double-cross. Tina - I'm tellin' y'all, I don't think she's a rookie! I could be wrong - it has happened before - but I think there's something veeeeeerrry fishy there. Julian had to hold her back from interviewing the shop owner ("Let the detectives do that....") [side note-I thought that was a perfectly normal question for the first officer on scene.] and then she's cool as ice in the van during the possible gang bang. Cooler than a brand new cop and a female about to get majorly infected should be. More like a seasoned UC detective. And don't forget, at the end of last season, Rawling made a request to have the Strike Team watched. Hmmmmm... time will tell....
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Post by qb on Jan 28, 2006 1:06:50 GMT -5
Teri, even though you post a while after others have commented about an ep--I always look forward to your evaluation because of your experienced and astute eye.
I was wondering why the hell Kav was so damn clumsy and awkward in his story with Corrine. I think you are exactly right and what a great catch! He did it on purpose! This guy knows cops' wives very well. He knew Corrine would tell Vic. How else to truly experience what Acevada said about Vic looking you in the eye and lying right to your face. Kav wanted to see if for himself. No doubt, Kav is the single biggest threat Vic has ever faced. I wonder if he senses that?
And I still agree with you on Tina. Unless the actress is playing the character inaccurately, I believe you are seeing what we will understand later. That's the genius of a good script writer!
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Post by chemikalman on Jan 28, 2006 1:34:10 GMT -5
Very good episode! Every minute had something going on to move the story forward, and it's fun to have eps like that where you really feel like you're getting somewhere. (IMO, 'Lost' could take a hint!) Anyway.... But because I'm such a latecomer to posting since I watched the ep tonight (Friday), mostly everything I was going to mention was already covered by arne, jwc, catpurrson, and others. So, good work guys!!!! Things I'd like to add.... Kavanaugh and Corrine - accident or not? Imagine this--Kav knows Lem is probably going to tell Vic and Vic is going to be covering his tracks, possibly including talking to his ex-wife. So perhaps he 'blows his cover' with Corrine so that if she starts acting weird and cautious around him, Kav will then know that Vic knows and that Corrine is involved. Did that make sense? It's basically a double-cross. Tina - I'm tellin' y'all, I don't think she's a rookie! I could be wrong - it has happened before - but I think there's something veeeeeerrry fishy there. Julian had to hold her back from interviewing the shop owner ("Let the detectives do that....") [side note-I thought that was a perfectly normal question for the first officer on scene.] and then she's cool as ice in the van during the possible gang bang. Cooler than a brand new cop and a female about to get majorly infected should be. More like a seasoned UC detective. And don't forget, at the end of last season, Rawling made a request to have the Strike Team watched. Hmmmmm... time will tell.... Thank you for thinking that Tina's Q to the shopowner was perfectly normal, too! I thought Julien's comment was dumb, almost like he's jealous of her (see nitpickers thread). I also agree with you on the quick thinking Tina showed in saying she has gonorrhea in her throat--maybe that stepping in the blood in 5-01 was a decoy? About the Kav-Corrine theory, hmmm, now you might be stretchin' it a bit!
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Post by Cletus Van Damme on Jan 28, 2006 2:36:13 GMT -5
Actually, I think that if Tina suddenly turned out to be anything other that what's apparent (a rookie who has capabilities but also makes silly mistakes) then it would be an example of BAD writing. Stuff that is totally out of left field may have shock value but strains credibility. This isnt a spy flick, where a character would mess up a crime scene and get her earring torn out of her ear just to fool everyone and not blow her cover. And for what? She's just a uni cop, its not like Vic is going to open up to her. By that reasoning, why not have Dutch or Claudette suddenly be on IAD's payroll. They're in a position to do much more damage than Tina. Its the same principle behind Danny's baby. You cant just have a father out of left field, with ZERO previous relationship with her. That's soap opera shit. There's gotta be a connection, like with Vic or Taylor. Sorry for the rant
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Post by qb on Jan 28, 2006 3:11:13 GMT -5
Actually, I think that if Tina suddenly turned out to be anything other that what's apparent (a rookie who has capabilities but also makes silly mistakes) then it would be an example of BAD writing. Stuff that is totally out of left field may have shock value but strains credibility. This isnt a spy flick, where a character would mess up a crime scene and get her earring torn out of her ear just to fool everyone and not blow her cover. And for what? She's just a uni cop, its not like Vic is going to open up to her. By that reasoning, why not have Dutch or Claudette suddenly be on IAD's payroll. They're in a position to do much more damage than Tina. Its the same principle behind Danny's baby. You cant just have a father out of left field, with ZERO previous relationship with her. That's soap opera shit. There's gotta be a connection, like with Vic or Taylor. Sorry for the rant I can see your point about Tina. I happen to think Teri's observations are excellent so the actress may be portraying the character inaccurately. That doesn't seem likely either, with the quality direction in the series. So who knows??
As for Danny, we don't see much of her personal life. She could very well have had a relationship with someone we didn't see. She's a very private person! Unfortunately, there's no way to keep a baby hush hush.
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Post by Cletus Van Damme on Jan 28, 2006 6:02:47 GMT -5
I can see your point about Tina. I happen to think Teri's observations are excellent so the actress may be portraying the character inaccurately. That doesn't seem likely either, with the quality direction in the series. So who knows??
As for Danny, we don't see much of her personal life. She could very well have had a relationship with someone we didn't see. She's a very private person! Unfortunately, there's no way to keep a baby hush hush. I dont disagree with her obvservations either, its the conclusions that I'm not sure of. I think we sometimes read too much into the press surrounding a show. What I'm trying to say is that we've been told than Tina is a rookie who cant hold her own and that Kav is "Vic's intellectual equal". I think that this is causing people to assume that Tina cant have any capabilities/skills whatsoever or that if she does it must be because she's undercover. The same goes for Kav; any mistakes he appears to make must be becuase he's so cunning that he's just making them to throw people off guard. There are simpler explanations: a) Tina's got capabilities but she's prone to makng mistakes and b) Kav is obsessed with taking Vic down and that is going to cause errors. Anyway, time will tell! I'm just glad to have this site to be able to talk Shield with all of you Cheers!
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Post by arne on Jan 28, 2006 7:43:41 GMT -5
Kavanaugh and Corrine - accident or not? Imagine this--Kav knows Lem is probably going to tell Vic and Vic is going to be covering his tracks, possibly including talking to his ex-wife. So perhaps he 'blows his cover' with Corrine so that if she starts acting weird and cautious around him, Kav will then know that Vic knows and that Corrine is involved. Did that make sense? It's basically a double-cross. Good catch, Teri, I was about to post something similar now that I've rewatched the episode, because the more I think about it, the more likely your theory seems to me. I just can't think of Kavanaugh being as clumsy as he appeared to be when it came to prying into Corinne, while, on the other hand, he's got all his bases covered accurately. And, he's a great manipulator - e.g., he knew exactly how to push Aceveda's buttons, even though Mr. Councilman was pretty reluctant in the beginning. I can't wait until Kavanaugh shows the aces he's got up his sleeve. I'm not sure about the whole Tina thing, though. I agree with cletusvandamme - Tina being IAD or any kind of "spy" wouldn't feel right, even though I give two thumbs up for Teri's observation skills (something I felt I didn't do often enough in the past, e.g. the days of TSF). I noticed that Jose Zuniga's IAD character seems to be gone... why? Wasn't he supposed to stay on the Strike Team? The fact that Rawling is gone is not a reason to pull him off the investigation, or is it? Okay, Kavanaugh's got Lem now, but wouldn't it be wise to still have someone else inside the Barn...? I'm not saying it's Tina, wouldn't make much sense.... well, we'll see about that. As for Danny's baby daddy - if it's not either Vic or Taylor, I would be disappointed. I put 50 in the pool on Vic. ;D This would make the most sense when it comes to creating more personal drama, even though some may think this is too "soapy".
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Post by Teri on Jan 28, 2006 11:15:37 GMT -5
I can't wait to see how this all plays out over the season! It's really cool that we all see things in different ways. I have a very suspicious streak sometimes, and so I tend to read a lot into what's going on, even on TV! Maybe I'm overanalyzing, and maybe not. It's watching and seeing that's the fun part!
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Post by Blanket Party on Jan 28, 2006 15:38:00 GMT -5
Kavanaugh and Corrine - accident or not? Imagine this--Kav knows Lem is probably going to tell Vic and Vic is going to be covering his tracks, possibly including talking to his ex-wife. So perhaps he 'blows his cover' with Corrine so that if she starts acting weird and cautious around him, Kav will then know that Vic knows and that Corrine is involved. Did that make sense? It's basically a double-cross. Even better, if this is the case, that means he knows that Lem double-crossed him, and that means he's got even MORE to hold over his head...
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Post by chemikalman on Jan 28, 2006 16:17:51 GMT -5
Kavanaugh and Corrine - accident or not? Imagine this--Kav knows Lem is probably going to tell Vic and Vic is going to be covering his tracks, possibly including talking to his ex-wife. So perhaps he 'blows his cover' with Corrine so that if she starts acting weird and cautious around him, Kav will then know that Vic knows and that Corrine is involved. Did that make sense? It's basically a double-cross. About the Kav-Corrine theory, hmmm, now you might be stretchin' it a bit! In rethinking what I said about your Kav-Corrine theory being a bit of a stretch. It's probably no stretch at all. Meaning, does Kav really have to blow his cover with Corrine just to know if she talked to Vic? It would be natural to expect that she told Vic. I think he's just trying to read her (including face reading), to see if she will let out any little thing that can help him. Things like her saying that Vic always seemed to come up with money when she needs it. I think FW is incredibly good in this role. I am really impressed. I love all the little nuances in his scenes in Jailbait with Aceveda, Corrine and Vic, in that order. Talk about mental chess!
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