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Post by jwc53531 on Jan 18, 2006 13:15:44 GMT -5
there were a lot of really good scenes in this ep and it really served to get all the major plots forging ahead in a big way - I'm really liking the whole Vic/Lem/Kavanaugh/Aceveda thing - Kavanaugh is pulling Aceveda in like a pro and undoubted this is going to come back and bite Aceveda in the ass somehow - and Lem now knows about Terry (what about Ronnie now - does Vic tell him, I wonder) - that was an awesome scene between Lem and Vic at the end - Kavanaugh playing the Angie card was priceless - but somehow I think Vic will talk his way out of this with Lem and Lem, despite his battered conscious, will side with the ST in the end - the Doomsday character was great and you have to think he'll show up again too - too bad we never got an Antwon-Doomsday matchup
on the downside - like others, the Claudette/Dutch story is weak - they've been partners for so long, Claudette would confide in Dutch if only to ensure that their investigations don't get compromised - but, who knows, maybe Claudette is just tired of all the BS (ie Billings) and has just given up - I just don't don't buy it right now - and the Corrine/Kavanaugh 'meetings' are too forced as well - but that apparently gets resolved next week based on the previews - the Danny/Julien/Tina story is weak too - I'm more interested in where the Dutch/Tina story is going to go (other than a bad ending for Dutch-boy)
a B+ from me but I'm still really inspired on how the season is unfolding so far - we're getting movement in major arcs and there's lots of action and the intricate plot points I remember from pre-S4
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TeKnOw
BANNED For Pissing Off E
Posts: 31
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Post by TeKnOw on Jan 18, 2006 13:36:48 GMT -5
- Dutch is a ticking time bomb. You can already see him & Claudette begin to mix it up a bit..and he's definitely rough-around-the-edges, a Dutch we've never seen before...it'll be interesting; he knows he would have been better than Billings in that Captain's chair. agreed, and I reference my post in ep1 thread for the first signs -disagree about better than Billings.. well at least in a measurable amount, He probably wouldn't direct or inspire admiration any better, he might try to assume control but where it counts, in Vic, he wouldn't have it... Don't get me wrong I like Dutch, but he's no Captain either. - I hope they don't punk out and label Kavanaugh a drug addict...but you know there's something wrong with him. I've mentioned before that he gives off this Orwellian, 1984-ish vibe...creepy, with the random hotel room, the messy appearance, the rushed talking when he's excited, yet he's always calm & generally in control when with someone from whom he needs to "extract" info - like a predator quietly hunting prey..he's like the personification of recent Radiohead songs filled with paranoia & the feeling of a doomed future. Ok I may have lost some of you there... There's definitely something up with him but I hope they make it more exciting than drug addiction...maybe he's got a past...you know Vic is going to start digging next week! I mentioned what I'm about to write several times in chat last night and I really do believe we will find it to be true. Kavanaugh is the Columbo of IAD He is playing Everyone... he didn't need Aceveda for Lem's signing that was just icing and his (Aceveda's) inclusion will serve as a secondary plot. Again I predict that Kavanaugh is going to try to bite Aceveda and that we will see Aceveda save Vic in some way. Or alternatively Aceveda will hurt Kavanaugh's investigation. Everything from the rabid batting of eyes, to the overdisplay of excitement by Kavanaugh, to the I understand your decision, to I need a decision is all manipulation. He shines in looking inept, but I'll bet he's far more on top than it appears. From the accelerated speech to collective and thoughtful is a flip of the switch for him determined by the needs the situation demands. I'd say Corrine finding out (future) who he is was devised in a manner... I mean Kav had to expect it. It is meant to put Vic off balance on the odd move of coming after his wife.
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Post by eddiekaay on Jan 18, 2006 14:00:38 GMT -5
who knows, maybe Claudette is just tired of all the BS (ie Billings) and has just given up - she certainly has given up on her hair-!I miss sexy, strong Claudette
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Post by dizzylizard on Jan 18, 2006 14:17:48 GMT -5
I don't get the feeling that Claudette has given up. I think she's just weak (cafeteria scene in ep1, and sitting down at the roadside shoe shop, last night), and I would guess she's got a lot going on, inside, coming to terms with whatever bad news it is, that she's been dealt, medically. I would guess that we'll see a lot of up and down, with her, this season, depending on her physical condition, at any given time. She'll be all up in Dutch's face, at some point.
Was I the only one who was kind of ticked off at Dutch for being such a jerk about Claudette taking some personal time? I mean, c'mon, this is a woman who has worked her ass off for very little, and when she takes a little time off (which I imagine she's got plenty of sick days built up), is it really that much of a problem for Dutch? You would think that he would realize that, more than anyone, even without knowing why she needed it.
~Diz
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Post by BenYankee on Jan 18, 2006 14:18:30 GMT -5
Another thing about Kavanaugh: What's with his working out of a motel room? I know he doesn't want to take Lem down to the station for Lem's sake, but it's getting sketchy.
Additionally, eddie, I'm with you now on that whole Vic telling Lem thing. Vic would have just lied to Lem if need be. It doesn't make sense. Maybe he'll be able to talk his way out of it by saying that Lem's question threw him off or something.
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Post by leadinvestigator on Jan 18, 2006 15:18:14 GMT -5
I think Dutch ragged on Claudette because they are so close and he gets defensive when he feels left out. He cares for Claudette in a very personal way and he's hurt that she won't confide in him. Also, I think he's scared. He knows enough to be worried but not enough to cope with her illness.
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Post by jimmycracker on Jan 18, 2006 19:04:14 GMT -5
Not sure about this. As someone said, I liked it (a lot) and I didn't like it. Sort of feels like the vic/lem showdown needed to be built up a little more. Seemed really sudden.
One thing that ticked me off was some of the dialogue. "I'll smack that smile right off your face" was weak, as was most of the exchange between the strike team and dooms day. They're doing a great job building up the story, though. I hope the strike team from now on deals mostly with the I.A.D stuff and the rest of the cast has the 1 episode sideplots.
Can't wait for next week.
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Post by -|E|- on Jan 18, 2006 19:14:39 GMT -5
I was too distracted to watch this episode in my preferred manner. I have an identical experience!! I did catch the 'Lem getting wired' scene in Kavvy's motel room.... Nice the way he played the mic test. Better than nice... just WOW!
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Post by Jan El Señor on Jan 18, 2006 19:18:50 GMT -5
As I had said in another discussion... that Vic would even hesitate for a second to lie to Lem after Lem told him he was wearing a wire (no matter if it was disconnected) is incredulous beyond belief. I mean c'mon guys, that's really pushing it... Lem says 'Look me in the eye' and Vic just caves in??? I disagree here. Lem has never got in Vic's face the way he did in this episode when he demanded the the truth. Lem has always gone along with Vic, for the most part, only losing it in disagreements with Shane. Vic never had to deal with Lem wanting to know until now because Lem really had no reason to question it until he found out Terry was working with the feds to bring them down. With the original three members, Vic may have kept things from them, usually to protect them, but he hasn't ever straight up lied to them. You can't lie to a friend when he come straight at you like that. Vic doesn't need to lie to protect Lem. Aceveda and Kavanaugh already believe that Lem didn't know what Vic did. I'm really curious as to how it will play once Ronnie finds out (which I'm sure he will....) Something like this never goes away....
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Post by qb on Jan 18, 2006 19:42:52 GMT -5
Not sure about this. As someone said, I liked it (a lot) and I didn't like it. Sort of feels like the vic/lem showdown needed to be built up a little more. Seemed really sudden. One thing that ticked me off was some of the dialogue. "I'll smack that smile right off your face" was weak, as was most of the exchange between the strike team and dooms day. They're doing a great job building up the story, though. I hope the strike team from now on deals mostly with the I.A.D stuff and the rest of the cast has the 1 episode sideplots. Can't wait for next week. I agree with this... I found the Vic/Doomsday interaction weak on Vic's end. Maybe he's been sitting around the Barn too much, but after the premiere I was ready for some really snappy one-liners. Vic just looked small and old compared to DD. "The Hounds of Hell?" I laughed at that one because they really aren't anymore, if they ever were.
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Post by eddiekaay on Jan 18, 2006 20:20:04 GMT -5
Yeah, "Hounds of Hell" is a stretch right now -- way too tame compared to the old version.
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Post by dtpollitt on Jan 18, 2006 23:41:51 GMT -5
I don't see this on a board anywhere and looked in the 50 most recent posts, so maybe I am the first to post. If not, feel free to slap me, admin. Looks like FX finally got their shit together and put up the WEBLOGS from this season!! This is great, I really liked the addition the postings made to each episode by the cast and crew members. Anyway, I'll re-post it here so we all don't have to run over to the *other* Shield website... ******************************** SLAP! lol - Etheshieldrap.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=talk&action=display&thread=1137612770********************************* I don't really understand how this was posted, as it says, on January 10th - the premire - but it says it is for "Enemy of the Good", 5x02. Doesn't really seem to match up. Not the best posting in my opinion. This is the first one by Fierro I think, too. There you go, thanks guys and gals!! --Dan
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Post by fju2112 on Jan 19, 2006 10:01:35 GMT -5
I don't see the Vic/Lem thing in the same light everyone else here seems to see it. I dont' think Vic admitted anything - he just gave Lem a blank stare. I think in next week's episode we'll see that the writers wanted us to believe Lem now "knows" Vic killed Terry, but in fact Lem still has doubts and Vic eventually lies to him. Don't forget, Lem lied right to Tavon's face about what happened before he got smacked in the head with that iron, lied about Mara's baby...no one on that team is above lying to each other, as tight as they are. And Vic didn't admit anything (yet).
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Post by arne on Jan 19, 2006 10:23:46 GMT -5
Once again, an episode I wasn't so sure about until the final scene, Lem going ballistic on Vic, which (well, at least to me) made the difference between a B- and a B+ rating. Why I didn't rate it A? As some of you already pointed out, the Dutch/Claudette storyline wasn't strong enough IMO. I'm not talking about Dutch being pissed at Claudette because she doesn't reveal the nature of her sickness - Dutch is a guy who doesn't like being cast aside or left out in any way. What felt a bit forced/rushed was the case itself - I wonder if good old Dutchboy will, in spite of Claudette's problems, get the chance to crack a major case in S5 which gets him back on track. If this is the last season, I would feel let down if Dutch didn't nail a bad guy of the cuddler rapist or Sean Taylor calibre in the end. I always thought that Kleavon (the guy from S4 they just couldn't crack) would be Dutchboy's final big catch... but hey, we're just at Episode 2, there's a lot of time left to bring him back. As much as I agree with those of you who don't think Dutch would make a good captain, it's quite obvious he's royally pissed at Billings. Maybe Dutchboy even regrets he rejected Ass. Chief Philips' offer, especially now that his gut is telling him that Claudette's illness will be the end of their professional relationship. I'm curious how things will end up for that angrier, "darker" Dutch we've seen so far. Maybe his obvious desire for Tina will be a huge issue. What about Billings? Is he sick, too? Alzheimer's, maybe? "Anger shoes"?!?!? Or were his silly lines in 5x02 just an expression of his inability to express himself, "and so forth"?? Ha, even mastermind Dutch didn't understand... I'm not sure where this is going.... I must admit, I was too sceptical about Forest Whittaker after 5x01. In "Enemy Of Good", he absolutely got me. Kavanaugh, with his sloppy looks and his mood changes, keeps me guessing what his major flaw is. I hope it's NOT drug addiction, but I'm coming to believe that it's not just his take on his job that makes him act like that. I liked the scene when he tried to talk Aceveda into helping out with getting Lem to cooperate. To steal a Vic line from Season 3, Kavanaugh was "like a kid with his first titty magazine". Then, later, when they did the check on Lem's mic, he was scary and threatening as hell. Great, and a fine performance by Mr. Whittaker. The interrogation scenes in the motel room were a bit too stretched IMO, but they sent shivers up and down my spine more than once. Seeing Lem confronted with Terry's murder felt to me like my beloved show is finally back on track. I thought the moment when Aceveda realized that Lem in fact didn't know the truth about Terry's death was superb. Benito Martinez delivered that brilliantly - the moment of absolute surprise, because Aceveda always suspected the whole Strike Team to be involved. I loved that. Well, and the final scene (even if it strongly resembled the one from 3x15 "On Tilt")... I loved it, because to me, it was a great "Shield moment", but I can understand it caused some stir around here because some of you didn't like how it played out (Vic didn't lie to Lem right away). Thinking about it, maybe even Vic was shocked about how, all of a sudden, the tables have turned. A few hours before Lem confronted Vic, Danny asked for the Terry files, and Vic and Shane didn't seem to be worried at all. They didn't get suspicious because someone wanted to see these files. They agreed to hand them over without batting an eye. They felt safe. And now, Vic knows that the walls are closing in on him. Even if it seems impossible to get Vic for Terry's murder, without any hard evidence and Lem's deal with IAD exposed, maybe he was still shocked to see what went down between IAD and Lem without him knowing. And yes, Vic has a soft spot for Lem. I didn't feel that Vic hesitating to lie to Lem was too far off track, or out of character. I once swore never to watch a preview again, but this time, I couldn't help (didn't reach the remote in time). It's great to see that things seem to be moving a lot faster than back in S4. Judging from the preview, there won't be anymore "Kavanaugh prying into Corrine" scenes like the ones we saw so far, because Kav's cover will be blown - thank God. And I really appreciated that they wired Lem up AND let Vic know about it in one and the same episode. I would have hated it if they had dragged that on too long. The shit is hitting the fan pretty fast this season, and I love it - feels more like the good old days.
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Post by Blanket Party on Jan 19, 2006 11:02:24 GMT -5
Re: The Shield timeline I'm not sure about the jump between seasons 1 and 2, but the jump between 2 and 3 was about a day and a half, if I recall correctly. Either way, it was very short. The jump between 3 and 4 was about six months. So I think the jump between 1 and 2 and 4 and 5 turn out to be the same six months. When you factor in time for the episodes themselves, the math should work out. These shows always follow their own timeline. Take 24. Its first season was 2001 but if you do the math, the day that started this week is about 7 years and 4 months after the first season. If I remember, Season 1 took place over...oh...six months? I'm pretty sure the gap between Seasons 1 and 2 was five weeks (judging by clues in the dialogue). I would imagine Season 2 took place over six months as well, but I can't tell for sure. I read somewhere that the gap between 2 and 3 was like a day or so, but that doesn't seem right to me. The way I understand from the dialogue through the season, it would have been more like three months, and the time between Playing Tight and On Tilt was something like three months as well. Six months or so between Seasons 3 and 4... Season 4 taking place over six months, perhaps? Six months between Ain't That a Shame and Extraction... That comes out to something like three years and one month. Maybe one of the seasons took place over a shorter period of time, but I really think that the gap between 2 and 3 was three months...but I haven't gone back over the older episodes in a while, so I may be a little off... ...someone also mentioned another way to tell was how old the kids were. In Season 1, Cassidy was...what, 9 or so?. In Ain't That a Shame, we were told that she was 11. Six months later...that sounds about right, no?
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Post by electroshockblues on Jan 19, 2006 12:29:08 GMT -5
How would Julien have recovered from his beating in a a day and a half? By the same token, how would Danny have found a new job?
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Post by ricktheprick on Jan 19, 2006 13:05:25 GMT -5
Re: The whole "timeline" debate
Does everybody really think the creators and the writers of the show are going to get something that critical wrong. Hell, it was an actual line in the show. If they say Terry was on the Strike team 2 1/2 years ago, then he was. Give these guys some credit, they're not going to f*ck up that bad, it's the main storyline.
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Post by -|E|- on Jan 19, 2006 13:09:28 GMT -5
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Post by Teri on Jan 19, 2006 20:11:21 GMT -5
Vic - "We're a team...." He says it twice, once in the van with Doomsday and once with Lem.... I love it. I liked this ep... I like how Vic is slightly out of control and just off his game. And then the look he gives Lem at the end.... it's obvious he can't hide the truth any more. I think he's cracking, and it's going to be awesome to see how this plays out. Forest Whitaker again gave a great performance, in my opinion. I love his untidy look and his slightly manic, frantic enthusiasm. I noticed in earlier posts that his appearance is off-putting to some, but I think it's a very "roll up your sleeves and get into the dirt" kind of a thing. The subplots in the episode were light, but informative. We learned a little more about Claudette and got some insight on Tina and Julien and Danny playing politics. I thought they were nicely done without being overly played. What's interesting, and I hope I explain this so it makes sense, is that our beloved people in the Barn seem tired. Vic seems weary and less aggressive, Claudette is ill and not up to speed, Dutch can't close his case and doesn't even push his partner for information, Danny wants Julien to change his daily observation report so that it doesn't cause a stink..... And then again there's a mention of not having enough uniformed officers. My opinion, the Barn is severely depressed, overworked, and overstressed. They've have funding and personnel cut, and you just get the feeling everyone just wants to go home and have a beer. There's a faint reek of despair in the air. Kavanaugh, by contrast, looks very intense, fast and lean. I love this show.
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Post by Teri on Jan 19, 2006 20:16:30 GMT -5
Some have argued that apathy, not evil, is the direct enemy of good...as in, "Evil triumphs when good people do nothing." Perhaps Lem just taking Vic's work for everything? The poor public support that prevents good policing and empowers Doomsday? Danny telling Julien to cut Tina slack? Witness too scared to identify Doomsday (and still paying the price?) Dunno. Just a thought, of which I have fewer with each advancing year. Ah see, I knew there was another post along the lines I was thinking as I was writing. DA, you nailed it exactly... Apathy. Hell, Claudette's hair is a perfect example - the once beautifully groomed Det. Wyms with her tight braids and powersuits now looks frumpy and weary and... well... apathetic. Rock on, DA.
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