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Post by daerave on Nov 8, 2005 10:17:59 GMT -5
He's from Wisconsin, right? Somewhere out there. Anyways.
If Season 5 is indeed the final season, and theyre wrapping things up like all assume theyre going to be doing, surely Dutchboys racism is going to get dealt with. Itd be a no-brainer to assume it has something to do with Claudette.
His racism is well documented:
a)his reaction to Claudette trying to set him up with a black girl b)his Jihad comment to the arabic storeowner c)his 'superior' tone and comments to the Greek authorities during the hunt for Margos
I'm sure I'm missing some other examples, its been awhile since I've watched my DVD's.
This deffinatly needs to be dealt with.
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Post by daerave on Nov 8, 2005 10:20:14 GMT -5
FRY CATKILLAH, FRRRRYY!!
lmao
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Post by -|E|- on Nov 8, 2005 11:14:20 GMT -5
He's from Wisconsin, right? Somewhere out there. Anyways. If Season 5 is indeed the final season, and theyre wrapping things up like all assume theyre going to be doing, surely Dutchboys racism is going to get dealt with. Itd be a no-brainer to assume it has something to do with Claudette. His racism is well documented: a)his reaction to Claudette trying to set him up with a black girl b)his Jihad comment to the arabic storeowner c)his 'superior' tone and comments to the Greek authorities during the hunt for Margos I'm sure I'm missing some other examples, its been awhile since I've watched my DVD's. This deffinatly needs to be dealt with. I'm pretty sure Dutch is from Nebraska (as is Jay Karnes, actually), and I'm not sure our Dutchboy is racist - maybe he's just an insensitive dork with "foot in mouth disease." I mean, he doesn't go out of his way to attack people's ethnicity. I don't think he would have been so adamant about getting Claudette as his partner if he were truly racist. There are lots of racial comments from lots of different characters on The Shield ("pimpin' slope cooch" [did Shane say that?] and Vic's infamous "...not even on Cinco de Mayo," comment to Aceveda come to mind....). I think it has more to do with the way things really are in Los Angeles than with any latent racism on the part of the writers. LA (any large American city, really) is a diverse and volitile place to live; one of the bubbly spots in our great melting pot.... and the police see nothing but people's worst behaviours, so it's easy for them to become cynical and no wonder they come across as racists. a) I think his reaction to the blind date with Claudette's friend (cousin?) was honest. Having surprise over being set up with someone of a different race doesn't mean you are racist. He even commented that he had dated a black girl once before (college?). And he did go on the date with her and seemed like he wouldn't mind another.... b) The Jihad comment was uncalled for, granted. But he was apologetic after the fact, and I think he honestly felt badly. Racist people that I have had contact with would NEVER feel badly, nor would they offer an apology like that. c) "If my tone sounds superiour, it's because I'm American and you're Greek." I'm sorry, but that was damn funny!! I have a very good friend who is of Greek heritage. He thought it was funny, too. I'm glad Dutch is such a dork!! The cat killer thing disturbed me a bit; poor kitty. I was sure it was the first sign of his unravelling, but he seems to have a grip on things (ha ha) now. Time will tell.
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Post by leadinvestigator on Nov 8, 2005 11:38:20 GMT -5
The Greek remark was even funnier if you remember that Chiklis is of Greek descent also! And those remarks just make Dutch look like an a-hole anyway.
I kid around with my Hispanic friends, as do they, about speaking Spanish (none of them do, btw!) Mexican food, etc. PC b.s. often goes too far and isn't necessarily applicable among friends. "Friends" being the important word, of course.
There's a big difference between affectionate teasing and outright racism. They tease me about being Jewish and that's ok, too. We have fun with it.
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Post by daerave on Nov 8, 2005 11:57:20 GMT -5
ahh your probably right, its probably more of a foot-in-mouth then racism. if it hasnt caught up to Shane by now in some way, it probably wont to Dutch (tho Dutch does seem pretty hard done by when it comes to tiny mistakes biting him in the ass)
the only thing ill contest is that Im fairly certain he's from Wisconsin. remember that episode where he and claudette were invistigating a gang shooting, involving an MP5 back in Season 3? it ended up being the good university dropout kid that pulled the trigger, accidentally nailing his friend/protector? when dutch is interogating the perp later on, he makes a comment about how his high school life was hard back in the 'mid-west', he couldnt even imagine what its like in LA. im certain he says wisconsin.
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Post by xanthais on Nov 8, 2005 13:31:38 GMT -5
Shane, I think is racist, but he's the only one.
The word racism is banted about FAR too much IMHO. I have friends of all ethnicitys, I can call my asian friends Slant Nips, and they call me a Spud Nigger (because I'm Irish). Like has been said, the contextual difference makes all the difference in the world. Vic and others say it just to rile people up, but take the Shane vs. Tavon fight. "What, you think Vic's gonna push me aside for some darkie?" That right there, IMHO, was Shane's true nature. Bring from Georgia and all, raised in the deep south, ancestors probably had plantations and stuff. LOL
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Post by -|E|- on Nov 8, 2005 14:25:47 GMT -5
They tease me about being Jewish and that's ok, too. We have fun with it.
You're Jewish?? ::points and laughs:: HAHA! No, I'm kidding... just a little friendly demonstration. I'm your average generic American white girl; mostly British with a bit of Irish and German thrown in. My family has lived in the same Appalachian valley for 231 years, so feel free to make fun of that!! I'm quite proud of my heritage, actually.....
Although I am not Jewish (raised Episcopalian), I sing in a Yiddish Chorus, "Schtenzup" (Stone Soup). There is a Krystalnacht service this Wednesday night at the Temple, and our group was invited to perform.
the only thing ill contest is that Im fairly certain he's from Wisconsin. remember that episode where he and claudette were invistigating a gang shooting, involving an MP5 back in Season 3? it ended up being the good university dropout kid that pulled the trigger, accidentally nailing his friend/protector? when dutch is interogating the perp later on, he makes a comment about how his high school life was hard back in the 'mid-west', he couldnt even imagine what its like in LA. im certain he says wisconsin.
I must confess; I've only seen S3 a few times, and that episode only sounds vaguely familiar to me. I know, I know - bad E!! lol
Shane, I think is racist, but he's the only one. "What, you think Vic's gonna push me aside for some darkie?" That right there, IMHO, was Shane's true nature. Bring from Georgia and all, raised in the deep south, ancestors probably had plantations and stuff. LOL
I think Shane was saying things just to piss off Tavon; he did the same thing with the basketball player. Shane used the N word to try to get him to take the first punch so he could then beat him senseless "under the law."
I don't know; I just have a hard time accepting racism from people, and more so from a character I love - I'd rather think of a number of other reasons for their actions/words. But then it sounds like I'm defending racism; oy vey! How did this get so complicated?? I was raised to believe all peoples deserve respect..... RESPECT! edited for spelling errors
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Post by daerave on Nov 8, 2005 14:49:01 GMT -5
Holla!
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Post by Jdawg on Nov 8, 2005 14:51:09 GMT -5
I may sound like a dick, but I kinda hope everyone stays as their "racist" selves. Its one of the things I find hilarious about the show. I always crack up when someone makes one of those remarks. Im always saying "where do they come up with this?"
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Post by -|E|- on Nov 8, 2005 14:58:57 GMT -5
I may sound like a dick, but I kinda hope everyone stays as their "racist" selves. Its one of the things I find hilarious about the show. I always crack up when someone makes one of those remarks. Im always saying "where do they come up with this?" No, you don't... I also hope they stay the same bunch of crass maniacs; I wouldn't love them nearly as much if they weren't all so flawed and R E A L !!
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Post by shibby on Nov 8, 2005 15:52:13 GMT -5
He's not racist, just a little stupid sometimes
It's nebraska he's from.
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Post by chemikalman on Nov 8, 2005 17:06:01 GMT -5
By coincidence I asked Glen M. a Q about Dutch this past Sunday. Living up to my tease self, you'll have to go to the "Inside Info" board to see my Q and his A.
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Post by Jan El Señor on Nov 8, 2005 19:24:53 GMT -5
Dutch does say he went to high school in the mid-West in season 3. I guess he's originally from Nebraska, but he went to high school in the mid-West...
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Post by -|E|- on Nov 8, 2005 19:47:10 GMT -5
Hey, stop trying to confuse me.... Nebraska IS in the midwest:
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Post by Jan El Señor on Nov 8, 2005 19:58:11 GMT -5
Ooops, sorry! Actually, I'm not sure that map correctly identifies the mid-west states. I believe the mid-west states are Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, and Wisconsin. I went to school in Ohio and I know it was considered a wid-west state. But I digress... Either way, Nebraska is a mid-west state. Sorry for the confusion.
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Post by -|E|- on Nov 8, 2005 20:46:52 GMT -5
Heh. I never did understand how Ohio could be in the midwest.... lol I think Ohio just wants to be as disassociated with Appalachia and the East Coast as they can be, and it's flat in most places just like the midwest.... hhhrrrrrrmmmmm...... What region is Ohio in, anyway??
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Post by qb on Nov 8, 2005 21:02:34 GMT -5
It cracks me up when weather guys refer to states like Tennessee and Kentucky as "the midwest" Huh?? Even Orlando Bloom was going it when he was discussing his new film, Elizabethtown...but then he's a Brit and can't be expected to know these things!
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Post by yourmomma on Nov 8, 2005 23:19:22 GMT -5
Dutch isn't racist. The guy has undying love for Claudette, for one thing. Shane, I think is racist, but he's the only one. I don't even think Shane is very racist. He's a crass, rude bastard, who makes racist comments, but as for actually being racist? I dunno. He got along just fine with Vic's old partner, Joe Clark (?), and with Trish from the Decoy Squad. Many of the times he makes the comments to deliberately rile people up (the basketball player in season one, Tavon). And in Tavon's case, to be fair, it was Tavon who played the race-card first by calling Shane a 'cracker', and then when Shane made the comment to know your place, he gets all super defensive and brings the 'back of the bus' line out. Even though its clear Shane didn't mean it like that. IMO, anyway.
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Post by electroshockblues on Nov 9, 2005 4:25:22 GMT -5
Considering that we all watch a show in which the main character is a murderer and corrupt cop I'm quite surprised that so many people feel the need to defend Shane.
Sure, he isn't openly racist towards every minority he comes into contact with, but thats because he knows that it would cause much more trouble than its worth if he went around spouting racial slurs everywhere he went, especially when his superiors - Aceveda, Claudette and the chief - are all minorities.
He's only ever racist when there are witnesses out of earshot - he called Derek Tripp, the basketball player, a "nigger" with only Lem and Ronnie as witnesses, called Tavon a "darkie" within the privacy of his own home, and called Antwon a "nigger with a faggot nigger son" in the privacy of the interrogation room.
Furthermore, all of these racial slurs were directed towards a black person whose success Shane was jealous of - Tripp had money, fame and girls and rubbed it in Shane's face, Tavon was fast becoming Vic's new favourite, and, previous to insulting him, Shane had mentioned Antwon's wealth and success. Coincidence? I don't think so.
Most of the black people that Shane comes into contact with are gangbangers from poor areas and Shane doesn't really have a problem with them since they aren't succesful or affluent and he believes that his status as a cop gives him superiority over them. Once he sees a black man doing better than him, however, he has a problem.
One of the main reasons Shane is one of my favourite characters is that, despite all of his many, many flaws, and, against my better judgement, I usually end up rooting for him. Even if I know that he's little more than a racist thug a lot of the time I can't helpt but feel sorry for him. It makes me somewhat uncomfortable, rooting for a guy like Shane (or Vic, for that matter), but since when was The Shield a "comfortable" show?
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Post by yourmomma on Nov 9, 2005 4:44:06 GMT -5
He's only ever racist when there are witnesses out of earshot - he called Derek Tripp, the basketball player, a "nigger" with only Lem and Ronnie as witnesses, called Tavon a "darkie" within the privacy of his own home, and called Antwon a "nigger with a faggot nigger son" in the privacy of the interrogation room. In each one of these cases, he's being deliberately provocative, though. He's using the racial slurs because he know it WILL piss them off, and thus get the desired effect. In Tripp's case, it was to make Tripp react violently so he could arrest him. With Tavon, he was just getting really annoyed that Tavon wouldn't drop the subject and leave it be. And with Antwon, I think its very clear that he was trying Antwon to get pissed and hit him, so he would have some justification to shoot him dead -- that's why he took off the handcuffs, and that's why Antwon realised, and put them back on. Sure, going to the lowest common denominator and using racial slurs to aggravate people is an a**hole move (and nobody is arguing that Shane is not an a**hole ), but does it necessarily make him a racist? I'm not too sure about that.
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